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Author | Topic: Multiculturalism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Ridiculous, ringo. As others have said in response to your 'reassess our values' nonsense, there is no need to do so. Our values are demonstrably superior. They create demonstrably better societies with demonstrably happier people living demonstrably longer lives. Do you get the pattern? It's not a matter of weighing 'equal' values. It's a matter of getting rid of inferior ones because they have been demonstrated not to work. It's pretty simple and straight-forward really. You aren't going to convince anyone in this thread that our values on FGM are skewed. Because they aren't.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member
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UNICEF may well have concerns about forcing circumcision on women but we're talking here about women who are in favor of the procedure. If they don't think they're being "forced" into anything, why should UNICEF or you or anybody else overrule them? Why not let them decide for themselves? Of course no one here is really talking about FGM being forced on women, but about FGM being forced on little girls who cannot possibly have the mental faculty to consent or not to something such as FGM. I'm all in favor of a society that lets women mutilate their genitals as much as they please; but I have no tolerance for cultures that let those same women mutilate the genitals of children (regardless of whose children they are) or force it onto anyone else who may not consent (through cultural pressures, for example). And just like women who burn their children with cigarettes or lock them in the basement so they don't misbehave, I am 100% in favor of throwing women who force FGM on their daughters to spend substantial amounts of the remainder of their lives locked in a prison far removed from the free and successful societies that their infectious ideologies threaten to rip to pieces and away from the children they abuse. And this FGM-as-child-abuse is only part of the picture. In general, FGM is nothing but sexism, a discussion we've already had and don't need to have again. There is really no reason to think that allowing people from FGM cultures to continue to practice FGM on their daughters in host nations is anything other than a stupid and dangerous idea. And there is every reason to think that ridding the world of this practice will improve the lives of people the world over and protect children from the barbaric violence and bigotry of their own cultures. FGM has no place in the 21st century. Not in the West. Not in the East. Not anywhere. Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member
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Given the choice between losing their genitals and being an outcast, many choose to have their daughters loose their genitals. While that might not be "force", per se, its hardly giving them a "choice". Of course. At the same time we need to make sure we are not limiting the rights of non-coerced, consenting adults to do as they please to their own bodies. It is definitely a very fine line when it comes to adults. Regarding children, though, I think we can agree that there is little grey area. Forcing FGM on children is simply wrong.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Whatever ringo.
You're being so ridiculous that your posts no longer warrant reply.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member
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But nobody is talking about sending a task force to their homes and ripping them from their children and throwing them in prison. To be fair, I kind of am. But then again I am absolutely convinced (and, I believe, rightly so) that Western cultural values are superior to FGM cultural values and that as we have been blessed with such great powers that we have a responsibility to use them to advocate for the oppressed, the hungry, the exploited, etc. I think we have a duty to step in and help people who are being enslaved to evil, even if that evil is their own culture.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Really, though, comparing FGM and male circumcision is pretty pointless regardless of the nature of FGM in question.
That the genitalia of men and women are evolutionarily analogous to one another means relatively little in light of the fact that they are presently quite different from one another and that any government worth its salt that regulates what parents can and cannot do to their children's genitalia should not treat them as identical. Even when the procedures in question remove/modify evolutionarily analogous parts male circumcision and FGM are completely different things.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member
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All I'm saying is that cultural practices should not be treated the same as individual crimes. Multiculturalism.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member
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What happens when we regard all beliefs and cultures as equal?
quote: As the number of people who wish to practice FGMjust as an examplein the West increases, what will be the result? It is crucial that the prosperous nations of the earth defend the cultural practices that have made their nations prosperous and not relax their enforcement in the name of Multiculturalism and cultural relativism. The fate of the world depends on it. Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Maybe you should research people before you quote them. I did. His character is quite questionable. What does that have to do with the information?Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
The quote is just a bunch of percentages and lists of Islamic organizations. If you think there's something amiss with any of it, bring in some percentages and lists to counter.
But nitpicking on someone's character doesn't accomplish anything. As I said myself, I also think rather lowly of him, but I'm willing to trust he knows how to make a list.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
You presented him. You need to show he is correct. What are his sources? Show he us interpreting them correctly. He has shown himself to be a liar and racist. You show me why this should be any different. His sources? For the percentages he gives the following in the endnote:Calculated from figures in the UK Labour Force Survey and the United Nations Population Prospects middle projection. See also 'Muslim Population "Rising 10 Times Faster than Rest of Society"', The Times, 30 January 2009. Just looking at Wiki (Islam in the UK), I see a roughly 4% increase between 2001 and 2011. I'm not inclined to dig through the nearly-impossible-to-navigate UK statistics site. The figures seem to check, though, and I doubt the ONS will disagree with his 2004—2008 figures. That's the percentages. As far as the organizations listed, are you questioning the existence of any of them?Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Left to their own devices, religions would be as primitive and destructive as extreem Islam is today. I find that hard to believe. The Abrahamic religions have a history of being pretty violent. Early Christianity, however, wasn't violent until it got entwined in the administration of the Roman Empire. There are plenty of peaceful religions. Your atheist-centered, Multiculturalism view that religions are inherently violent and only become non-violent through tempering by irreligion and secularism is not supported by any evidence. It isn't a matter of secularism vs. religion because not all secular philosophies are equal and neither are all religions equal. You have to look at the specific beliefs. Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member
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There are a few - but we're talking about Islam and Christianity at the moment. Okay. You probably should have said so to begin with. Your statement in Message 1018: "Left to their own devices, religion would be as primitive and destructive as extreem Islam is today." seemed very general to me.
Your atheist-centered, Multiculturalism view that religions are inherently violent and only become non-violent through tempering by irreligion and secularism is not supported by any evidence. It is supported by the evidence - there's actually a lot of it. It's interested me for a while now, I'll start a thread on it sometime. When you do start that thread, you might want to consider that the reverse of your opinion is possibly true regarding Christianity: It became violent only when it started concerning itself with the very secular matter of running an empire. Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
You said you wanted to start a thread on this topic. If you do, I'll participate. Otherwise I don't have much more to say on the matter here.
Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Multiculturalists put cultural sensitivities before individual liberties; elevate the radical beliefs of a backwards religion above the principles of freedom and democracy.
quote: quote: quote: Love your enemies!
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