A measured look at a difficult situation

It really helps to read in context, believe it or not. The groups the Reformers identified with were CHFRISTIANS who dissented from Rome. Good grief you guys will say anything crazy, won't you.

I guess all you guys can do is accuse accuse accuse. It must be a lot easier than thinking.I don't care how many were guillotined, what is of interest, as I've said a million times so far, is WHY they were guillotined. My claim is that the RCC puts people to death simply for disagreeing with their beliefs, but governments, unless they are doing the RCC's work as the Spanish Inquisition was, and Bloody Mary was, don't execute people unless they've done something against the state.This is really not hard to understand, it just takes a LITTLE TINY BIT of brain power.Irish history is simply not my concern. This thread was started to answer a particular post of mine that became a big discussion about Irish history but my interest was only in the fact that the RCC murders people for not sharing their beliefs. You can see this in the IRA and in the Irish Rebellion too, where there is no cause other than that the victims were Protestants. I also mentioned Mexico and I don't know a lot of Mexican history either. I could also mention Croatia and I don't know a lot of Croatian history either. And could mention the Holocause, where the RCC also played a role. And Rwanda and other places where it was the RCC that instigated massacres and murders.While I can't say it NEVER happens I CAN say that by and large Protestants don't do that, and Protestant governments don't either. If they execute Catholics it's for things like trying to assassinate the king.Again, this is really not hard to understand, just paying attention a little, followed by a little exertion of thought, a very little, should do it. What's amazing is that you all keep accusing me of things I'm not arguing as if you didn't know how to read. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

So Henry Kamen is the only valid historian on the subject?In any case I'll have to come back to this later. Please remind me if I forget.

I know you can show a lot of historical and political complexities. That's why I keep bringing it back to the simple fact:The Irish Rebellion was the murdering of innocent Protestants by Catholics, abe and no matter what Cromwell did his action was not the same thing as murdering innocents, it was aimed at putting a stop to the rebellion, period. /abeand MOST of the IRA conflicts with Protestants were initiated by the IRA, not the Protestants. In fact I don't think you can show that the Protestants initiated any.These make the point, along with similar situations in the many other countries I referred to.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Then you are simply missing the point because the point has nothing to do with Irish politics, it's about the RCC in lots of countries.

OK, apparently I spoke too soon but it's going to take more exertion than I'm up to at the moment to check it all out so please be patient.

The point I'm trying to make is independent of all politics, it's promoted by the RCC in whatever country it happens to decide to persecute non-Catholics.My point, again, is so very simple: I'm trying to keep the focus on persecution for one's beliefs, as opposed to being punished for crimes such as persecuting people for their beliefs.

Reviewing this post I see you are talking about armies. I'm trying to talk about unprovoked murders of people simply for their beliefs, outside of any other context such as army action etc., unprovoked persecutions such as what the Irish Rebellion was, and a great deal of the IRA attacks on Protestants was as well.This action you've described sounds quite cruel, but what was the army doing there at all? Usually they come for some purpose but you don't mention that.ABE: You also fail to give your source and in trying to track this down I found that there have been many incidents involving Rathlin Island and a page on what may be the one you are talking about gives a long long list of different events in what apparently was an ongoing war. So what exactly is your subject here?Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Is this what you are saying:The Irish Rebellion and the IRA actions were all reactions to the settling of Protestants in Northern Ireland.

Do you admit that any of the forced conditions were deserved because of Catholic actions?

It was the Irish, not the Vatican, who would have done the deeds that were being punished.I refuse to get into your assertion that Cromwell was not legitimate, as I believe I said. He went to quell a rebellion which was nothing but outright murder.

If you don't describe what you're talking about there's no point in asking me anything, I am not interested in spending my life on this thread trying to find out if some other situation has anything in common with the one you're trying to evade. A murderous rebellion deserved a military putdown.You really didn't answer the question about whether you accept that the restrictions were at all deserved, you merely evaded it with irrelevant stuff about the Vatican, nothing about Irish being the cause at all, and now you're evading it by referring me to a completely other situation. You are of course implicitly denying that they were at all deserved but I'll ask it again: do you regard any of it as deserved? By the Irish Catholics, that is, the people the restrictions are of course intended to punish. (What's your evidence that the poor people weren't equally to blame by the way?) Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Tempe, I'm sorry but I can't read a whole post that starts out implying the Irish Rebellion that was the wholesale unprovoked murder of Protestants is the same thing as America's rebellion against Great Britain. Sorry, can't stomach such a comparison, or any other comparison you assert, such as with the War of 1812 and Cfromwell. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I'm not going to read long posts that make comparisons without even explaining what similarities there could possibly be but claiming they exist anyway. It's too much to ask.

You win, there's no such thing as Catholics attacking Protestants because they are Protestants.