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Author | Topic: Sending myself crazy! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Ah, but you weren't born believing, were you? You have years and years of parental influence and churchgoing and instruction which have heavily influenced you. You would have probably been indoctrinated in a similar way, but in a different religion, if you had been born in a different country, you know. You would have, most likely, been raised a Hindu if you had been born in India, a Muslim if you had been born in Saudi Arabia, Buddhist or Shinto if you had been born in China, etc.
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nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: No, you don't know that at all. That is like saying if I had been born into a vegetarian culture I would have known that there was something missing in my life; eating meat. How would I miss something I had no knowledge of? Come on, now, can't you see that you are fighting against reason and logic by reaching to "I would have" type statements? Isn't it quite reasonable to imagine that you would have been a Muslim if you had been raised in a Muslim country, or a Shinto or Hindu or Buddhist in an Asian country, etc.? Do you not think that most of the people following those religions are doing fine and probably don't feel like there is anything "missing" any more than most people in other countries and religions? After all, there are a lot more non-Christians in the world than Christians.
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nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KingPenguin:
[B]I didn't ask you to turn off the "love" that you feel. I also didn't ask you to feel "less" faith. I asked you to turn off yourfaith. --you did ask me and i couldnt. I can manage to stop all of my thoughts but i couldnt just choose to believe that evolution occurs because its based on poor science and a few facts.[/QUOTE] What do you mean you couldn't? I thought that belief was just a choice? Also, what does evolution have to do with if you believe in God or not? Also, the ToE is not based upon poor science and a few facts. Unsupported, sweeping dismissals of this sort point much more to your ignorance than to anything lacking in science. Either provide evidence of this poor science and show how all of Biology falls down in the lightest breeze because it is built upon such a shaky foundation, or stop saying things that you cannot back up in the least. It is very poor debating style.
quote: We weren't talking about science. We were talking about the assertion that faith in God is a choice. I think that you are flat out wrong about choosing to have a belief, and you have yet to make a compelling argument that people can have a belief if they want to.
quote: Maybe your faith in God is the same as a child's faith in Santa. Ever consider that you aren't mentally equipped to deal with that?
quote: So?
quote: The people who raise you have a huge influence on you no matter if you "completely trust" them or not. I don't trust my mother much, but it would be silly of me to deny that she had an enormous influence upon the kind of person I turned out to be. I have had to counteract a lot of what she taught me about myself, because she was really destructive to my psyche, but that doesn't mean she wasn't influential.
quote: I didn't say you were brainwashed. I said you were taught.
quote: You can't put yourself into any viewpoint if you disagree with it? Wow, that is a very narrow way to experience life and a very poor way to understand people and cultures which are different. Is your personal viewpoint so weak or restrictive that attempting to understand where someone else is coming from is too scary? Do you feel that putting yourself in anothers' viewpoint, just in an attempt at understanding, is too much of a threat to your own?
quote: Your reward was approval from those who wanted you to believe a certain way. That is all a child ever really wants, is approval from their parents. You also get to be in groups of people who all think along the same lines and everyone pretty much agrees. It's much nicer to be accepted than to be rejected, isn't it? The emotional payoff is pretty good. Also, you can't possibly think that following Christianity is the only way people can be raised with morals to live by, do you? Morals don't come from God. They are human constructs.
quote: I am not talking about what you know now. I am talking about what you say you would know if you had been raised in a non-christian culture. You don't have any inkling of what you would be thinking, so don't try to say that you would.
quote: Um, how is vegetarianism not a "correct" diet? Why would you wonder what animals tased like if the concept of eating meat was never introduced to you? That's like wondering what fish tastes like when you live on top of a mountain.
quote: Just like someone of another religion can't see the world without their deity of choice. Don't you get it yet?
quote: Wow, that is SO arrogant. Perhaps the longing that any Christian might feel at any time is actually for Krishna, or is a supressed quest for enightenment in the Buddhist tradition.
quote: The point is that the biggest determinant for one's religious views and traditions is where one is born. [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-16-2002]
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nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Just trying to bump this thread up...
KP, why don't you reply?
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nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Why did you choose Christianity as your choice of religion?
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nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: LOL!, I have plenty of room to talk, thank you. I am asking very probing questions, it's true, but this is a debate board, after all. I am not being abusive, I am not unresponsive, and I am quite willing to examine all evidence and arguments that anyone proposes in support of their position. If you have discomfort with debate, then I suggest you learn to not take things personally. The major thrusts of this discussion are my contention that the religious belifs and traditions that most people hold to are determined by the culture in which they live, and that one cannot simply choose to believe in God. So far, KP, has not provided very convincing arguments to counter either of my arguments. Instead of inaccurately chastizing me for being a big meanie (translation: good debater), why don't you be of some real help to KP and provide some well-thought out counterarguments to what I have put forward. ------------------"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow- minded." -Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"
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nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You bristle at my idea that you think I am a "big meanie", and you say that I portray you in a false way, because "you never implied that". Nearly simultaneously, you say that I portray you as an "immature, stupid person", which of course shows that you are doing the same kind of false portrayal that you accuse me of doing. The irony of this last part is just too delicious. ------------------"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow- minded." -Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"
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nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: OK, here's a little test of your claim that you can perform right now. Stop believing in God and Jesus for the next 30 minutes. If it is just a choice, then this should be no problem for you.
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nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I actually think that faith IS a choice, but belief isn't. I have faith that my husband will not cheat on me, and he has faith that I won't cheat on him. We make the choice to trust each other, based upon evidence, of course.
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