Sending myself crazy!

quote:

---

Originally posted by RetroCrono:
Is there such a thing as true choice?

​

I want more the people who construct there thoughts through scientific backing as I already know what most others will say. Seriously, I cannot make sense of this 'choice', it baffles me. Does it exist?

---

Choice? I might be able to answer if you were to define what this choice was between.....Are we talking choice to believe or not? Or free will? Or what?

quote:

---

Originally posted by RetroCrono:
Just choice in general, does it even exist? If everythings bound by structural naturalistic laws than how can such a thing exist? Even for the incredibly complex human mind, how can it work out of the realms of what it's bound by?

​

I need some insight...

---

The clockwork universe died in the early 20th century at the hands of Heisenburg, Schrodinger and co......

quote:

---

Originally posted by RetroCrono:
No, that has nothing to do with that. Doesn't everything in energy work by cause and effect? Some things are unpredictable, however every effect still came from a cause, whether we understand it or not. Therefore how can humans exist in energy but function differently. Every single action you take and every single choice you seem to partake in comes from some sought of cause. Seriously, is this choose, or an illusion of choose?

---

Seriously the answers to your question can be found by picking up any decent introduction to QM. cause and effect only exsists as such in large systems at small levels things exsist as probabilistic wavefunctions, you can`t tell where they are and how fast they are moving with any real certainty due to Heisenburgs principle, and thats the sort of scale that decisions are made on in the brain, ergo thought is not a result of cause and effect as such and choice does exsist....

quote:

---

Originally posted by RetroCrono:
Thanks for your thoughts joz, I'm going to have to look into this more before I can properly get my thoughts together on the subject. However, if free choice is real, you do realise that allows God to be an all loving God.

---

WTF do you mean? When you say free choice do you mean free will?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Darwood:
Everyone has thier beliefs because thats what they chose to believe in.

---

OK bud tell me how I can choose to become a christian?And I don`t mean lip service here I mean actually believing....Hell I`ll widen the challenge to any religion that I don`t believe (hint I`m an atheist)...If you can`t its a pretty good indication that belief is non elective.....Oh and don`t just say by going to church or by reading the bible, that falls under the umbrella of lip service untill I have chosen to believe...

Something just occured to me, maybe KP et al feel that they have to choose to be christians (and creationists) because if they were to merely look at the evidence they could not honestly reach the same conclusion...IOW they CHOOSE a preconcieved notion of what is and then ignore any and all evidence that disputes this world view....Is this the sort of choice you mean?I am being quite serious here so please don`t take this as some sort of studied insult, this is the only way I can concieve of a choice to believe....