[QUOTE]Originally posted by KingPenguin:
[b]"What do you mean you couldn't? I thought that belief was just a choice? "
-it is but once your set in your ways you generally arent able to toss them away without significant evidence.[/QUOTE]
[/b]
All we are trying to demonstrate is that, for many of us we CAN't BELIEVE. Not because we choose NOT to believe, but simply because our minds do not let us believe. I HAVE TRIED TO BELIEVE. Believing in something IS NOT A DIRECT CHOICE OR DECISION. It is a result of all the information that has passed through our 'Melons'. [QUOTE][b]
"Also, what does evolution have to do with if you believe in God or not? "
--nothing
"Also, the ToE is not based upon poor science and a few facts. "
--matter of opinion
[/QUOTE]
[/b]Not sure why KP has to add ToE to this argument.
[QUOTE][b]
"Unsupported, sweeping dismissals of this sort point much more to your ignorance than to anything lacking in science. "
--read the last sentence of your next quote
[/QUOTE]
[/b]And?
[QUOTE][b]
"Either provide evidence of this poor science and show how all of Biology falls down in the lightest breeze because it is built upon such a shaky foundation, or stop saying things that you cannot back up in the least. It is very poor debating style. "
--i wasnt contesting biology. i am asking you to prove to me that evolution is a natural fact.How about it actually taking place?
"We weren't talking about science. We were talking about the assertion that faith in God is a choice. I think that you are flat out wrong about choosing to have a belief, and you have yet to make a compelling argument that people can have a belief if they want to. "
--can you choose to use your hand to itch your back? you can but you could always just not do it, that would of course be very bothering and get you quite agitated if you didnt.
[/QUOTE]
[/b]Lets skip all the ToE stuff shall we? Since it has no impact on whether I believe in God or not.
[QUOTE][b]
"Maybe your faith in God is the same as a child's faith in Santa. "
--Innocent nonsupported faith that there is something worth having in life
"Ever consider that you aren't mentally equipped to deal with that? "
--Yes
"The people who raise you have a huge influence on you no matter if you "completely trust" them or not. I don't trust my mother much, but it would be silly of me to deny that she had an enormous influence upon the kind of person I turned out to be. I have had to counteract a lot of what she taught me about myself, because she was really destructive to my psyche, but that doesn't mean she wasn't influential. "
--a very influential part of your life, which would effect your opinion on everything.
"I didn't say you were brainwashed. I said you were taught. "
--taught to love one another. my faith and my soul is my own. my judgements may be influenced by all of my experiences but its still my conclusion and thought.
[/QUOTE]
[/b]It is your conclusion that is NOT by choice. Do you see this yet?
[QUOTE][b]
"You can't put yourself into any viewpoint if you disagree with it? Wow, that is a very narrow way to experience life and a very poor way to understand people and cultures which are different. "
--I can understand them but ill never belief or have faith in what they do.
"Is your personal viewpoint so weak or restrictive that attempting to understand where someone else is coming from is too scary? Do you feel that putting yourself in anothers' viewpoint, just in an attempt at understanding, is too much of a threat to your own? "
--no my viewpoint is mine. ive said a million times that ill believe anything scientifical if im provided with sufficient evidence for my tastes.
[/QUOTE]
[/b]EXACTLY! Now those so called 'TASTES' is what I'm talking about. These are the reasons why you CAN NOT choose to believe. I have searched for the belief in God, but my 'TASTES' do not allow me to believe. These TASTES are not by choice, thus the choice to believe in something is wrong! You do not choose to believe. Are we getting anywhere yet?
[QUOTE][b]
"Your reward was approval from those who wanted you to believe a certain way. That is all a child ever really wants, is approval from their parents. You also get to be in groups of people who all think along the same lines and everyone pretty much agrees. It's much nicer to be accepted than to be rejected, isn't it? The emotional payoff is pretty good. "
--actually the emotional payoff is pretty fricken crappy. It doesnt matter what group your in most likely at least one has other motives and thoughts than your own. I know probably more rejection that i do acception and this is my life not yours. so stay out my businness.
[/QUOTE]
[/b]Not sure how schraf is in your business. But I think all she is trying to point out is some of the reasons why people may believe rather than not believe. Acceptance vs Rejection. Has absolutely nothing to due with your 'business'.
[QUOTE][b]
"Also, you can't possibly think that following Christianity is the only way people can be raised with morals to live by, do you? "
--Well yes i can since my faith and morals come from Christianity but a suppose that there are a few good samaritans around.
[/QUOTE]
[/b]Maybe your morals have come from Christianity, but for many others, they come from other sources i.e. parents.
quote:
"Morals don't come from God. They are human constructs. "
--Oh im sure humans were just willing to be decent on their own. That is also a matter of belief.
"I am not talking about what you know now. I am talking about what you say you would know if you had been raised in a non-christian culture. You don't have any inkling of what you would be thinking, so don't try to say that you would. "
--No i wouldnt but i was of course raised this way and this is who i am.
"Um, how is vegetarianism not a "correct" diet? Why would you wonder what animals tased like if the concept of eating meat was never introduced to you? That's like wondering what fish tastes like when you live on top of a mountain. "
--Humans have a tremendous amount of curiousity, look at science for craps sake. That is a really poor analogy by the way. Youd still have other animals to eat and you wouldnt be able to live on a remote area of a amount for very long, especially without seeing any animal life.
"Just like someone of another religion can't see the world without their deity of choice. Don't you get it yet? Wow, that is SO arrogant. Perhaps the longing that any Christian might feel at any time is actually for Krishna, or is a supressed quest for enightenment in the Buddhist tradition. "
-- Whenever i pray to Jesus or attend church that longing is greatly lessened for a time. Just seeing the word Jesus can make me content, no other religion has effected me in that way.
"The point is that the biggest determinant for one's religious views and traditions is where one is born."
--there is still a chance that you will be born to atheists of the local religion that your area follows. You might then be able to come across a missionary or just live as an atheist.
I fail to see how believing in God is a decision or choice. I am not here to say your belief in God is wrong, but that your belief in God is not a choice you make.
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