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Author | Topic: The Science in Creationism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Maybe they attack it because there is something wrong with it I have presented the evidence, if you don't like my science or conclusion then just show they are invalid. Your task is impossible You have presented no evidence, only your conclusions based on your religious beliefs masquerading as science. And you have both attacked the scientific method and tried to co-opt its conclusions. You can't have it both ways. Either you accept the methods of science and accept its conclusions, or you don't. Creationists try to pick and choose, and that is laughable.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Dawn writes: ...because they don't meet your jack ass Scientific Method approach, which I have demonstrated to many times to mention doesnt ANSWER ANY CONCLUSIONS ON EITHER SIDE WITH ABSOLUTE PROOF. Here are a couple of definitions for you to learn from:
That you keep harping on the "inadequacy" of the scientific method and misusing the well-defined terms of science speaks poorly for your knowledge of either. Is it too much to ask that you actually learn something about science and how it works before posting long rants against it?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
And if the evolutionist claims are scientific, there is no reason the creationist reinterpretations should not be considered scientific too because we're dealing with the same material. Its been said before, not all interpretations are of equal worth. Some interpretations follow the data where it leads. These explain all the relevant data and ignore no relevant data, and they produce successful predictions. These interpretations become known as scientific theories, and there is virtually always only one successful theory at a time. There may be multiple competing hypotheses, but only one survives the process and goes on to become a scientific theory. Other interpretations ignore large amounts of contradictory data and produce no successful predictions. By ignoring contradictory data these interpretations go against the scientific method, and by 1) not explaining all the relevant data and 2) producing no successful predictions, these interpretations cannot be considered to be scientific theories. They are best described as failed hypotheses.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
In that case EVC should shut down and we should argue our case on the creationist sites where they actually live rather than arguing repetitive nonsense with Faith and, if we're lucky, one other loonie for the benefit of a few robots.
Creationist sites typically don't permit this type of debate. If you go against the local dogma you are banned rather quickly.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
...for the necessary conclusion of evolution. Just what is "the necessary conclusion of evolution?"Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Coyote writes: Just what is "the necessary conclusion of evolution?" Evolution is an investigation into the natural world. It has a process and a necessary conclusion of how these things got here in the first place. It's conclusion is that things are here by Solely Natural causes. Since you did not witness this event, it follows you could have no direct evidence of your conclusion. I thought so--you have no clue what "evolution" really is. Your definition is biased by your worldview and way too much time spent with creationist literature or websites. A definition from the web: Evolution: the process by which different kinds of living organisms are thought to have developed and diversified from earlier forms during the history of the earth. Note, there is nothing about origins in there. Evolution works just fine whether there were natural causes for origins or whether Zeus poofed things into existence. (When one opines about science without knowing what one is talking about, one looks pretty silly.)Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Whether wolves or dogs have less genetic diversity could tell you which started out with the smaller population...
But this information can also tell you the parent populations and the daughter populations.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Creationism can be detected in many ways. The only question before us is there science in my process. The answer is yes. Design is as easily detectable as awareness or consciousness. One aspect of the scientific method is falsifiability. How could the creationism/design hypothesis be falsified? What test or what evidence could do that?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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This thread was started with the object of showing that creationism is scientific. That effort has failed.
Instead we are being told that the scientific method is flawed and we need to degrade its definition to include any old nonsense. Behe got nailed on this same tactic during the Dover trial--he had to admit that his personal definition of science was sufficiently broad to include astrology. Creationists should just admit that what they are claiming is religious belief, and stop trying to co-opt the good reputation that science has earned over the centuries. Instead they seek to legitimize their religious beliefs by claiming they are doing science, and using the scientific method, while they are doing the exact opposite.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. |
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
And with this post, as with so many others, you affirm that what you are doing is peddling religious belief.
Religious belief is the exact opposite of science.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Dawn writes:
That has nothing to do with whether there is science in creationism.
But if you'd like to show me the chain of causality from the brain to consciousness, I'm all ears Dawn writes:
Religious belief uses methods exactly opposite to those used by the scientific method. You are trying to tear down the scientific method to sneak your religious belief in as science. It isn't working. And besides this you make religious belief sound dirty. Was that your intention indirectly Like other creationists, you seem to think that by attacking science you somehow support your religious beliefs. That is false. To support your religious belief scientifically you have to present evidence and use the scientific method--and that's something you have not done.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Whatever.
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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The only science in creationism is creation "science" -- which is the exact opposite of real science.
Real science starts with evidence from the natural world and seeks to understand it through the scientific method. Creation "science" starts with a conclusion based on religious belief and seeks to reinforce that belief through cherry-picking data, quote mining, ignoring contrary evidence, and any other methods they can come up with. They have to do this because 1) the methods used by science do not deal with the supernatural and 2) most claims based on religious belief that can be tested (i.e., the flood and young earth) have been disproved. And then there's intelligent design -- a subset of creation "science" fraudulently designed to hide the religion in the hope of fooling school boards and courts.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. |
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