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Author | Topic: The design inference | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Jeff Inactive Member |
quote: Saddly enough, this was the most substantive and accurate post that John Paul has shared with us in the past 2 years. It also explains his activities when the rest of us were awake and learning in science class. Well JP, shall we conclude that you have no suggestion as to HOW science would include the supernatural in its explanations ? Sorry to wake you during your most productive hours.
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Joe Meert Member (Idle past 5711 days) Posts: 913 From: Gainesville Joined: |
quote: JP claims to be an engineer and concluded that that one fact makes him an expert on design in biological systems. He's read a book by Dembski that confirmed what he firmly believed in the first place and now there is no turning back. I have been convinced that JP doesn't truly understand the religious agenda that is the sole focus of ID because that's his focus as well. I will say this, the ID folk have convinced a Moonie and an atheist to join their ranks so they can claim that the whole thing is unrelated to religion. Look deeper and you'll see these guys are being used like stage help in revival tent. Cheers Joe Meert [This message has been edited by Joe Meert, 03-25-2002]
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The Barbarian Member (Idle past 6270 days) Posts: 31 From: Dallas, TX US Joined: |
JP's an odd guy. He claims to be a Muslim. But he insists that the Bible is the Word of God.
I'm starting to suspect he's just a poseur.
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Peter Member (Idle past 1510 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
quote: You'll probably find that it's because Islam views itselfto be an elaboration of christianity. God provided us with MORE of his grand design through Mohamad (forgive the spelling). It's kind of like an onion, with judaism in the middle, surrounded by christianity, surrounded by Islam ... sort of religous evolution really
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3854 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
Except of course that in Islam, Jesus Christ is only a prophet, not the Son of God, and he died on the cross and didn't come back. In the last days, according to Islam, Jesus will be reborn and will break the crosses, re-educate the surviving Christians, and then die (for the last time).
It does seem to me rather remarkable that the two dominant monotheistic religions of the world share common parentage. Why is that?
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: Actually they don`t think that Jesus, or Isa as they call him, died. They believe he was taken up to "heaven" still alive and at their "day of judgement" Isa will return to fight the "antichrist" (and as I remember it become king and father a line of kings before dying and returning to heaven)...
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compmage Member (Idle past 5184 days) Posts: 601 From: South Africa Joined: |
As soon as the IDer's manage to find this designer, please let me know. There are many people who would like to pettition to have his creationist license revoked
------------------I have conquered worlds... [This message has been edited by compmage, 03-27-2002]
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Joe Meert Member (Idle past 5711 days) Posts: 913 From: Gainesville Joined: |
quote: JM: The funny thing is that for all the claims that ID is not religious, it's the only group that is arguing for a political mandate to change science. I don't know if that strikes any other scientist as 'very queer', but it does me. You don't see the superstring theorists arguing to have their views share equal time in the high school classroom with Einstein and Newton. You don't see the non-plumists (a plume is a hot mantle upwelling) arguing to have plumes removed from the classroom. YOu don't see mathematics groups seeking to remove "Fermat's Last Theorem" from the textbooks because it hasn't been proven! It's only because ID touches on our humanity that people argue about it. The ID'ists see no value to humanity unless it was intelligently designed and make no mistake about it, the intelligent designer is none other than God (there are a few token non-religious folk in the movement). This movement tries very hard to masquerade as legitimate science, but there is no scientific research aimed at biological ID (not a single paper---even by Behe! and please save the lame conspiracy excuses for someone who doesn't understand peer review). Cheers Joe Meert
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3854 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
Thanks for correcting me on that point. Don't they believe he was a product of virgin birth?
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"Don't they believe he was a product of virgin birth?"
--Yes. ------------------
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joz Inactive Member |
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Cobra_snake Inactive Member |
quote: Are you even serious here? Come on man, you HAVE to realize this statement is AT LEAST as ludicrous as a creationist claiming the "grand evolutionist conspiracy" thing that you are fond of laughing at. By the way, I don't see why exactly this topic has turned into a free-for-all bashing of John Paul. This kind of behavior is patently childish. Also, just because John Paul does not follow a naturalistic view as you may, does not make him ignorant or stupid.
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Cobra_snake Inactive Member |
"1)Only if you assume that on another planet the natural laws we observe in the rest of the universe are completely meaningless..."
No, it assumes that there are natural laws that we don't know yet. "2)And given that Intelligentdesigner is semanticaly equal to God that leaves us with Goddidit....." I'm obviously not going to convince you on this matter, so I have a different question. So what? What if God DID do it? "3)a)So if its a scientific theory rather than a religious belief in a lab coat why has the dear Dr not published his work in any form other than a popular press book? Its been 6 years, if he hasn`t published yet the chances are that he has nothing that validates his claims..." I believe he attempted to publish in a scientific journal. He is also involved in books other than Darwin's Black Box. "With no proof it is a belief, and by dragging in an intelligent designing entity, for which there is no evidence for the existence of, it becomes a religious belief..." Really? So, you're saying that belief in a theory that has no supporting evidence makes it a "religous" theory? Actually, IDers do claim to have evidence, and that is the apparent design of living things in nature. It's rather unfortunate that detecting design generally tends to imply a designer, making ID "religous" in your view. "c)Athiests driven by religious conviction????? Que?????" Yes, the religion of humanism.
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Brachinus Inactive Member |
quote: A theory with no supporting evidence may not be religious, but it certainly isn't scientific. In fact, it's not a "theory" at all, but a hypothesis. And even most hypotheses have some supporting evidence (a hypothesis is usually formulated as an attempt to explain evidence). As for the "apparent design" in nature, it seems to me that that's a matter of interpretation. Also, natural selection has been shown to create the appearance of design (e.g. antibiotic resistance in bacteria). And what divine being does "the religion of humanism" worship?
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The Barbarian Member (Idle past 6270 days) Posts: 31 From: Dallas, TX US Joined: |
[b]I can understand how a Muslim can have reverence for the Bible (although most of them consider the Bible to have major factual errors). But to call the Bible the Word of God is to admit the divinity of Jesus. Which is something no Muslim would do.
And John Paul never cites the Q'uran. Ever. And he either ignores me or throws a tantrum when I ask him about it. I'm pretty sure he's a fundamentalist Christian, who's posing as a Muslim, for reasons at which I can't guess.
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