The Tension of Faith

Again Faith, reality shows that is simply an absurdity as well as being totally false. Every religion has it dogma and so you are saying that Muslim Dogma is codified truth.Do you ever think about what you post?Or maybe you mean Faith's dogma is codified truth?So where are these HUGE differences?

Unless I missed something I don't see anything on that list I'd even want to call a miracle, which I regard as something only God could do by suspending the laws of physics. These all sound like demon tricks or manifestations, if the reports are true of course.

Yes, exactly, she had no idea she was witnessing a miracle. You said Jesus' appearances were miracles. Also, she didn't even recognize Jesus. So much for the ease of recognizing the supernatural. Oh, yes, of course, you're much better at recognizing the supernatural than Mary Magdalene, if you do say so yourself. Sounds like a self-reinforcing delusional community. And what was your drug of choice that night? Everything I see is real, not an apparition, and not supernatural. Well, I guess it's progress that even you understand what you're saying sounds drug induced. Sure, Faith, I'm "prejudiced" against things like made up demons. In that case I'm "prejudiced" against leprechauns and Santa Claus, too.It still remains true that what you said is full of nonsense and self-serving unsupported assertions. Even you recognize that the things you're saying are pretty crazy since you have to deny taking drugs. But that's exactly what it sounds like, that drugs have screwed up your mind and now you think demons, angels and apparitions have been your frequent companions. Yeah, you guys are pretty habituated to this "born again" stuff. Well, that's quite a bit addled. Prejudice is the wrong word, but sticking with your vocabulary choices, how can one be "prejudiced" against the existence of the unevidenced? Things that are real leave evidence behind, and the nonsense you talk about doesn't. Therefore, not real.You next completely screw up your quoting. I'm not going to fix it. You just can't help yourself, can you. Naturally given your history your word means nothing and I will assume you'll be continuing the discussion. The differences lie in the details and are minimal. All you religionists believe in things for which there is no evidence. Demons, angels, sprites, devas, rituals, liturgies, it's all the basically the same made up stuff.--Percy

Actually, yes. You're working very hard to miss the point. The Romans didn't adapt the Greek religion unchanged but with new names for the gods. They made lots of changes, but that's not the point. The point is that bad-mouthing other religions has a long history signifying nothing, which is all you're doing. You credulously believe anything bad you hear about another religion, then you post it here. I didn't say anything like that. I said you're in parrot-mode repeating baseless assertions over and over again. Your judgment is seriously flawed. The discussion isn't over. You yourself might be unable to muster any evidence or meaningful arguments for your position, but the discussion isn't over until you stop responding, and we're years past believing you when you declare a discussion over. Christianity by the sword, the longbow, the gun, the cannon, the crusades, the Inquisition, slavery, cultural destruction, etc... That would be a self-reference. The antichrist is fictional.--Percy

You missed something. The last sentence of my paragraph was, "Or select any other contemporary miracle you like."--Percy

I think you are most likely wrong there Percy. It seems that if anything could represent the antichrist it is Conservative Evangelical Calvinist Christianity as marketed by Faith (not faith).Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

I don't know of any contemporary miracles, but any along the lines you posted would have the same problem of not being evidenced except by witnesses. You insist that Jesus' appearances after the resurrection are not one-time events, and I don't even think they should be classified as miracles myself, but in any case they suffer from the same problem of being evidenced only by witnesses. I thought you were aiming to give us an example of a miracle that had some other kind of evidence, since, as you said, if it occurs in the real world it should have such evidence. What happened to that project?

The Antichrist according to the Protestant Reformers is the Pope. Not fictional.

It's quite clear that Mary Magdalene didn't have a problem recognizing Jesus because his appearance was a miracle. That's some weird idea of your own. In any case I was talking about the difference between a dream and an apparition. Jesus after the resurrection was no apparition. Where did I say Jesus' appearances were miracles? Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

While at one time that was true later Protestant Reformers pointed out that the Pope was NOT the anti-Christ. One of the main purposes of the Authorized King James version of the Bible was to purge such utter nonsense from Protestant Christianity.

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"The modern world is filled with men who hold dogmas so strongly that they do not even know they are dogmas." -- G.K. Chesterton

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Nowadays, not too many see it that way. Some likely think Obama was an antichrist. Doesn't the interpretation say it is a man from the East? Donald Trump came from NY. He would be a likely candidate in my mind since lots of Christians love him and are swayed by his talk. Lots of books i used to read said that the antichrist would please the Jewish people and stand in the temple proclaiming himself as God. Trump wants to bring back Jerusalem. And I could see him standing in the temple someday and saying that HE brought about peace and unity. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

You need a story that makes sense. You're saying that though millions have observed miracles, not a single one of those miracles occurred during our lifetimes? None are occurring now? You've observed all these supernatural phenomena - are they not miracles?Given the ubiquitousness of cameras and smart phones, why has no supernatural apparition ever been recorded in a video? Wait a minute, of course they've been recorded in videos, how could they not? Let me check Google...yep, sure enough, tons of videos of supernatural apparitions. These aren't miracles?Anyway, here's a YouTube video of five miracles recorded on video. How could you not know about them? Again, you joined a subdiscussion between me and GDR, which is fine, but you haven't bothered to inform yourself about it, so go back to Message 1106 and read the subdiscussion forward. I never proposed "to give us an example of a miracle." I don't believe miracles exist, so it's absurd to think I would ever say such a thing.--Percy

The pope is a real person. Of course he's not fictional: The antichrist is imaginary and does not exist, though you can find images of him, too: If is of course fully consistent of you to denigrate people and things you don't like. You are a cauldron of hate.--Percy

Jar's frequent question is appropriate here: "Have you even read the Bible?" It clearly says she thought he was a gardener. Well now you're just lying. I'm just reading the Bible, John 20:14-15:

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¹⁴ At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

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¹⁵ He asked her, Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?

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Thinking he was the gardener, she said, Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.

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You can't seem to make up your mind whether apparitions are miracles or not. Just a few short messages ago you denied awareness of any contemporary miracles, which means you didn't consider the apparitions that appeared to you were miracles. Now you're implying that because Jesus wasn't an apparition that his appearances weren't miracles. Yet that's precisely what you've been implying. This is from your Message 1139 from yesterday, where you first began participating in the subdiscussion between me and GDR: If you didn't think Jesus' appearances were miracles, that was the time to say so.--Percy