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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Tension of Faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: They did exactly the same with interracial marriage - an even less popular decision -which too many Christians also felt to be in violation of God’s Law. And aside from your personal beliefs there is very little difference between those decisions.
quote: If you think that then it follows that there is no legal force to the decision legalising interracial marriage either. It’s funnny how you aren’t protesting the earlier decision - even if you agree with the decision itself you must consider it an overreach by an activist Supreme Court - on a matter that you (wrongly) think should have been left to Congress.
quote: Obviously not.
quote: We’ve yet to see any good reason why you can’t. Maybe better education in the Bible would overcome your bigotry, although the men you follow wouldn’t want that.
quote: I’m going to ask again. Where does the Bible spell out rights and privileges that are to be exclusively reserved to heterosexual couples ? I’m sure it doesn’t mention health insurance specifically, but maybe you can find something close enough. Or maybe inheritance rights?
quote: We can certainly make it plain that you have no claim to be really Christian.
quote: Of course you don’t like people being Christian. We know that.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
If you are Christian then tell us why you are lying in the name of denying the secular benefits of marriage to gay couples.
We know perfectly well that is the real issue here, since Christians have been seeking to deny those benefits when they came with civil unions or simply by the gift of employers. And really those benefits are all that gay marriage provides anyway. It just gives them all neatly and simply in one package. And how do you react to the Christian couples who threatened to divorce if gay marriage were permitted ? Isn’t that an unquestionable breach of God’s Law? But when I ask you how the secular benefits are against God’s Law - there is no answer.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: Your fellow Christians clearly do object - and it is quite likely that the people you are defending would also object. And really the modern concept of marriage is different enough from the version found in Genesis - and the fact that it is a wholly secular issue - that it isn’t really clear why you object.
quote: Of course it isn’t a program to destroy marriage, it is simply extending the legal and civil benefits of marriage to gay couples. And you don’t object to that.
quote: Gays can and do have children by various means - and I include adoption - that heterosexual couples with fertility problems also use. Also, the benefits of marriage are extended to infertile couples - including those where the woman is past child-bearing age when she marries. So that is not a valid objection at all. If the benefits are to encourage marriage and children does it make sense to deny the benefits to a gay couple bringing up children but grant them to a childless and infertile couple who happen to be straight ?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: Well, of course you do. But does that mean that gays who have adopted children should be denied the secular benefits of marriage - even in the cases where they are relatives ? And how about gays raising children from previous, heterosexual relations?
quote: I don’t see that gays are automatically worse than any other adoptive parents. And if the vetting processes aren’t good enough to determine that the adoption is in the best need of the child, then they aren’t good enough full stop. There’s no need to single out gays.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: What pretence?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: Legalising gay marriage solved the injustices at a stroke without causing confusion. Trying to solve the problem any other way would have been far worse. It’s the opponent’s of gay marriage who are causing the confusion - and there’s no reason to think they would have done any less if another solution had been tried. Just because you would accept a solution doesn’t mean the people who complain bitterly and threaten boycotts when companies give rights to gay partners would.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: Religious freedom is not religious freedom if it only applies to people who agree with you. If banning discrimination against gays was a First Amendment violation, so was banning discrimination against Blacks. That is indisputable. So you should care because your case rises or falls with theirs.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
It’s funny Faith. When completely baseless accusations are made against people you hate - like Pizzagate - you love it.
When people truthfully criticise you or your fellow Christians you start screaming against it. Is it any wonder people have a low opinion of you ?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: The truth shows up a lot. Often you don’t like it and call it lies. As you have just demonstrated.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: The truth shows up a lot. Often you don’t like it and call it lies. As you have just demonstrated.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
Sure Faith. Honest people predictably tell the truth even when you don’t like it.
Now do you have any substantive points to make ? Any solid answers to the evidence provided by the article and it’s links ? Or are you just going to go on throwing unsubstantiated accusations as usual ?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: Even without any further consideration it is clear that you cannot expect others to regard your religious views as facts - at least not unless you can actually support them with sound arguments. (And you have a record of calling arguments good even though they have been shown to be bad). In context, it looks worse. Your religious beliefs include twisting scripture to fit doctrine - and suppressing knowledge of the Bible that contradicts your beliefs with invented accusations (want to explain why that ISN’T bearing false witness?).It seems a bit much then for you to accuse others of mistreating scripture.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: It doesn’t matter whether it is standard to believe in twisting and misrepresenting the Bible to fit your dogma or in making false accusations against any who find out that the Bible isn’t what you want it to be. It’s still hardly what we’d expect from a Christian or anyone who can honestly claim to believe the Bible.
quote: But it isn’t just duelling opinions. In real, honest, debate it comes down to who can support their opinions with evidence and reason. And if you lose there, and you do, then getting angry about it and attacking people who dare to disagree with you is hardly a good thing to do in any sense. But you still do it.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: Odd coming from someone with a history of misrepresenting their sources. And it’s really hard to endorse Biblical inerrancy (let alone with Calvinism as well) without twisting or misrepresenting the Bible.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6
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quote: You don’t have a command from God saying that you must oppose gay marriage.You have permission to eat meat from pagan sacrices which seems at least as close an association as providing services for the secular celebration of a gay marriage. And you seem quite willing to disobey other commands. quote: You don’t have a relevant law in the Bible. We know that because you can’t find one. And, of course, the Quran speaks of marriage and Muslims include the Torah among their Holy books.
quote: Or because there are no instances of Muslims breaking the anti-discrimination laws. How many Muslim-run bakeries are there in states which include gays as a protected class ? How many of those supply wedding cakes ?
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