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Author | Topic: Importance of Original Sin | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Faith would argue that we all come short of the glory of God no matter how much spare change we hand out. Is this a black and white issue or is it gray? It isn't about "letting Jesus in"; it's about keeping sin out. If you keep sin out, Jesus is "in" in the only real way He ever will be.And sin means what you don't do as well as what you do. If you fail to take care of the least of His brothers, you come short of the glory of God. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What makes you think "the One" guards His authority in such a petty way?
Its the whole "too many chiefs and not enough Indians" argument. Let the One be in charge and quit trying to duplicate His authority. Phat writes:
Sure, give your father credit for what you inherited from him, especially what you learned from him. But why blame your flaws on him? It may now be my money in name, but it was his sweat that put some of it there.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I've always said that it's gray. Unless you give all of it, you can't be sure you gave enough. That point is made, as I have pointed out several times, in both the Old and the New Testaments. Faith would argue that we all come short of the glory of God no matter how much spare change we hand out. Is this a black and white issue or is it gray?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Giving all of it seems unrealistic. How will you pay rent? How will you eat? Do you give up cable? Own no car? Never save for retirement? Or for emergencies such as health care? What about dental? Where do you draw the line? When does spare change begin and end?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
You can argue with Elijah and Jesus about that.
Giving all of it seems unrealistic. Phat writes:
That's what I'm saying. 100% is enough, unless you're a football coach. 99% might not be enough. Where do you draw the line? When does spare change begin and end? If you trust the guy you're having communion with, why would you have to do it all yourself anyway?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I feel like the rich young ruler...going away sad. I simply cant measure up to this commandment to give it all away. I suppose that being an atheist, you trust the socialists to take care of you when you get too old to earn anything.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
As I've said many times, we can't trust your God to do it. Even you clearly don't. I suppose that being an atheist, you trust the socialists to take care of you when you get too old to earn anything.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I don't trust the socialists either. That's why I need to save some back for my retirement.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: I don't trust the socialists either. That's why I need to save some back for my retirement. And there is absolutely no reason you could not do that under a Socialist Economic system.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
And God might ask you at the judgement, "Why did you hold back? Why didn't you trust me to take care of you? Why did you vote against the measures that would have taken care of you?" I don't trust the socialists either. That's why I need to save some back for my retirement. It's gray. There's no Bang! You're Saved! and you can coast to the end. It's flat-out all the way to the finish line.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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If that's what Jesus meant, that ALL of us are to give it all away, the entire Church would have known it and preached it from the beginning. It was addressed to that particular man Jesus was talking to, and to anyone else who feels the Holy Spirit calling him to that life, it is NOT for all of us.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
quote: But, the first several chapters of Acts might just be saying that. About the Church.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
It does seem that the later councils decided on GIVING SOME OF IT TO JERUSALEM AND JAMES but what does "remember the poor" mean in Galatians 2?
Does it mean the Evyon (Poor) as in the Jewish Christians of James? Or poor people? In Galatians 1:13, Paul said he persecuted the "Church of God" At the time of Acts, everything was given to "The Church" before Paul caused a scattering. (Jesus also said to give everything to "The Poor" or "the poor" in the Gospels) Then in Acts 12:17, James seems to burst onto the scene as the leader of Jerusalem Christians. The Apostolic Council was Acts 2. (editing, 10:11 central time, to correct this to Acts 15) Galatians 2, mentions the Apostolic Council, which was about the old law, and the "remember the poor" was a decision reached (on the tithing issue?). What happened (all along and in any sequence) is murky. It seems like James and the Jerusalem community were not scattered by Paul's persecution, like the "early Church", but James became the leader of The Church after the scattering and conversion of Paul. Paul went straight to Jerusalem and visited James. The 100% of income being given to the church vanished, as far as we know, and there was simply a collection for Jerusalem. (We don't know what happened) Regardless, it seemed like more of a James & Paul idea. (Jesus had a different idea, one more akin to a 100% of income, houses, possessions, etc. being turned over to either The Church or the poor) Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
About giving...
LNA writes: but that's ludicrous! We are talking reality here...not some woo where coins appear in fishes mouths or gold appears in one's pocket. The fact is that everyone needs a certain amount of income or wealth to live in this world and to trade for food, clothing, and shelter! I agree with Faith in that the message is not for each and every Christian. Even jar says that under socialism there is a way to save for retirement. You cant retire if you've given everything you own away. Regardless, it seemed like more of a James & Paul idea. (Jesus had a different idea, one more akin to a 100% of income, houses, possessions, etc. being turned over to either The Church or the poor)Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
There are some pretty solid arguments denouncing salvation by works alone.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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