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Author | Topic: Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Because we see what we want to see to support our position. You do the same thing, which is why you love Matthew 24. If the authors and editors and redactors were divinely inspired to report the absolute truth why are there so many outright falsehoods, fantasies and contradictions in the report?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Perhaps we dont accept the premises because we certainly dont accept your conclusions. Phat, this really is an important issue. You and the Apologists claim that the Bible is divinely inspired and that what is written shows Absolute Truth. BUT, the reality is as has been pointed out to you many times that the Bible contains errors, contradictions, evidence of evolving mythos and revisionism. Neither you or ANY Apologists ever address that issue. Many of us though point out that what is actually written is evidence of human creation rather than divine inspiration and that assertion explains why there are errors, contradictions, evidence of evolving mythos and revisionism. You need to ask yourselves why it is so important for you to push the concept and belief of God back into an unknown (forever unknown) corner. Why it is useful for you to "prove" that Jesus (as marketed) never existed. How it does not really matter anyway since humans are our own belief within ourselves. How a brilliant man of studies, using only physics and numbers, can hypothesize a universe that arose out of nothing. You always value CONTENT over SOURCE, but in this case you need to be honest about the SOURCE you are marketing and the SOURCE that you are attempting to discredit. WHY are you driven to do this? It certainly is not in the name of TRUTH. You rejected truth a long time ago."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Don't let them discourage you,PRC. I specifically put this topic in Free For All and allowed you to have your own topic for blogging and Haiku expressiveness, for I suspected that this is what you would end up doing. Tell me though---who is Father Bancroft? Surely more people than just I would be curious.
And another question: Is your Brother still more charismatic and Protestant? If so, have you two found common ground in regards to God, Communion, and Beliefs?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: I think PRC is more in search of Miracles Of The Son. Both in his life and those of us who believe that the Son lives. EvC Forum has room both for Evolution and Science and for Creation and a Creator. One side is Science and the other is Philosophy. What has a grasshopper's legs got to do with miracles of the sun?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Yeah we know the drill.
OK. So you or Tangle will bring up Pareidolia and claim that this explains away every vision of a face by every human throughout History, right? "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Personally I don't, but who is to say that PRC is not wired to receive confirmation through everyday experiences?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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Amen!
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
But understand, it is still nothing but what you think and unrelated to truth, actuality or reality. So do you mean to suggest that truth is not a person?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Oh ok, I forget. You believe the same thing about the Bible...created, edited, imagined, redacted by humans etc etc.
I disagree with that of course. You always ask me to explain what I mean. Then, you claim that so far nobody has been able to show you. And then you have low regard for the apologists. Granted that among them are many a conman, huckster, and delusional fanatic. My case is that there is a group of people on this planet that have actually had a communion with what they strongly believe (and claim to know) to be the One God Who is reachable through Jesus Christ. In other words, Jesus is God. I know where this will go. You will say that its fine that I believe that, but that so far there is no evidence that Jesus even existed how modern Bibles and Apologists portray Him to be. I will assert that for those of us who know Him, the evidence is within us. Then the peanut gallery will crow loudly that exclusivity is a sign of mass delusion and fantasy and that if God existed they would first have to separate all of the candidates from human cultural mythos, proving yet again that they (you) don't understand God the way that we do. God is not a creation of the human mind. While it may be true that humans often attempt to define and describe God the way that they want Him to be, God is not bound to be that description. God exists eternally. He created all that is seen and unseen. Jesus is/was Gods human character, messenger, embodiment and representation. And the Holy Spirit is a gift...not a scientific law or property. God could have dumped this planet long ago and we would not be having these types of conversations.(or any at all, actually) "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
PRC writes: The only thought that is a bad think is a thought (and perhaps subsequent action) that harms other people. what if i thought, and i decided that Jesus is God? or is that bad think. Belief is a choice. God did not pick and choose who would believe any more than (as jar argues) He foreknew who would be damned. We become the decisions that we make. In my opinion, jar has a good argument in that Christianity is about what we *do* rather than what we say, think, or believe. One reason that so many people despise Christianity is because it claims to be exclusive. All-inclusiveness is a subtle plot and trick of the adversary, however. The only reason that I get on ringos case about socialism is not that it isn't a good idea to take care of everyone. Socialism without God will only lead to global chaos. One side says Jesus is the only way. The other side says that humans are the only way and that all gods should bee thrown away for all practical purposes. Does that make any sense?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
PRC writes: what if i thought, and i decided that Jesus is God? or is that bad think. Think about this. Ringo was a believer for many years and after examining the evidence he rejected Jesus Christ as a messenger, choosing only to keep the message and do what Jesus said to do. Were I a judge, I would not indict ringo for this choice, but I would say that in my opinion rejecting Jesus Christ as God is a bad think. And ringo, I usually don't answer all of the questions thrown at me because my opponents are attempting to re-frame the issue and get me to see the logic in the conclusion that they arrived at as unbelievers. But I do note your request and will attempt to go back and see my hundreds of unanswered questions and attempt to honestly respond to some of them. Do you have any particular ones that you think I should answer and not duck? List a couple here."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Chris listen to this podcast.
https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9yemltLm9yZy9..."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Learn Who God is.
Learn the Source. Hint: He does not require evidence. Socratic masters do not define who the Warlord is, what He should do, what we should do, and what defines reality. They are taught or they are reprobates who refuse instruction. The error of your entire teaching is that humans define God and have a responsibility to do so. You have emphasized CONTENT over SOURCE. You need both. Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Jesus is not some mere envelope. Jesus is the Creator of all seen and unseen. He is the name above every name. He is over all of the little pesky spirits of the age that plague both your intelligence and mine. He is the answer....not Trump and not Biden. Not Greta and her global warming mantras. Not socialism and a kinder gentler humanity. Are you ever going to be honest? You KNOW that the content is more important than the source. You don't throw your mail away and keep the envelopes. When are you ever going to be honest? God exists and wants a spiritual communion with humanity. Throwing away that envelope will give you a letter full of lying spirits and doctrines of demons. It may look and appear to be a good noble thing for all of us to be as one, but just as we humans could never be all as one in the day of the Tower of Babel, we wont be one now....without including (and worshiping) the SOURCE, Creator of all seen and unseen."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
PRC,addressing jar writes: It is basic and yet so powerful. But you have to understand what happened to jar. Learn who Christ is. He is God. That is basic. Way back in 2006 jar posted a Belief Statement:jar when our beloved Queen Asgara was alive and overseeing the Columnists Corner. As aa young child, he basically had the intuitive Theology of the mainstream Christians (which includes Protestant, Roman Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox by the way) when he first encountered an Episcopal Priest named Joe Wood.
Jars Belief Statement writes: It was then that jar got exposed to Critical Thinking, having Answers to Question, and other world religions and belief systems. Never again did he apparantly think that Jesus Christ was central to the salvation of humanity. In jars view, Jesus was marketed by a group of hucksters known as the apologists and was in no way actually as marketed. I'm not sure what the RCC teaches you, but I was taught that Jesus was and is Gods character...a mediator between the Creator of all seen and unseen and humanity. In Trinitarian terms, God was the SOURCE and ground of all, Jesus was the light that illuminated human understanding and awareness of the One God from all of the imaginations, vanities, myths, and explanations that human thinking would give us, and the Holy Spirit is that same awareness, Creativity of God, and Absolute Truth that comforts us all to this day. Perhaps out of all this there is one statement that you, I, and jar may agree with.
Joe Wood was the main Church influence in those years. He was the priest there, holding services on Sundays in a big old granite church that sat on the corner. The alley behind the church held a car repair shop called Gasoline Alley, and a man who had a zoo in his back yard with cages of monkeys, birds and real alligators and after services we could run down the alley and look over the fence at the wondrous things, cars disassembled and flashes of color as the birds flew about in their big cages, a world of sounds and sights and smells far different from the church above. The Church itself was cool and dark when you entered, the sun through the stained glass windows played and danced across the dark wooden pews as clouds raced across the morning skies. As the pews filled the temperature rose and you reached for one of the paper fans that sat behind the red Book of Common Prayer or black Hymnal. They had a scene and verse from the bible on one side, advertisements for funeral homes or restaurant on the other. Some said "In Memory of so-and-so. Living with Jesus and in the heart of his family and friends.", and when you asked who so-and-so was your mom would tell you to hush. As you grew older you were expected to attend classes leading to Confirmation. Joe taught all the classes, and he explained that when you were little, and baptized, your parents and god-parents had taken responsibility for your education and acts, but that now that you were growing up, it was time that YOU took responsibility for yourself. He also said that it was something to really think about. He said you were confirming, or that you might also find that you were not sure or ready to confirm, what it really was that you believed. He said he would be happier if we didn't get confirmed because we didn't understand things than if we did get confirmed just because it was what our parents wanted. Part of the process, in addition to classes were days when we got to sit down with Joe and just talk. He had a bucket with cokes and Nehi orange and grape soda and we'd sit side by side at a table and just talk. I remember telling him that "Jesus died for my sins and so if I believed in Him I was saved." and his laugh before he said, "Well, then I guess all this is a waste of time isn't it?" In summation, jars statement of Belief is this:
quote: Aside from not understanding how God could choose everyone and then judge them, splitting them into sheep and goats, I can understand his Theology. He claims that I always geet it wrong, as does ringo...but they want to direct my thinking into critical appraisal rather than in the acceptance that I was taught and still hold to this very day. Jesus will never become unknowable to me, nor will I fall for the idea that the apologists market a false gospel. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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