Are there any Christian Leaders that Walk with Christ?

Chris, you don't read too well. I said that at times, such as the feeding of the 5000, it took a miracle, but pointed that out as the exception.

I wasn't saying that it was to make them like him. I was saying that this really looks like a sort of tactic to hook up the younger generation. The older generation people are already hooked, so no point in pleasing them about such a minor thing.My question is how do I know that this wasn't just another scheme to "give candies" for the purpose of brainwashing? Again, how do I know this isn't an alternate form of brainwashing?We both know just how vulnerable kids are to dogmatic teachings. We both know just how rebellious kids can be. By having a conversation with them rather than telling them what is what, is it possible that it was a way to allow the kids to have some sense of control?It's like a con-artist manipulating someone who's not that bright. The con-artist doesn't just tell that person what to do. He lets the person feel like the person is in control, up until the end at least.

LOL. I can't see anyway you could know it wasn't brainwashing. Is it possible that it was a way to allow the kids to have some control? Or maybe even to move things from Dogma to understanding?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I don't see any scriptural evidence of Christ ever owning a house.You obviously don't read well either.Please answer my question.Because you're wrong.

Pastor Chuck Smith - Calvary Chapel - Costa Mesa Cal.
http://www.thewordfortoday.org/Pastor Greg Laurie - Harvest Christian Fellowship - Riverside Ca. Harvest.org | Greg Laurie Live | Online Church Service & PodcastsPastor Jon Corson - Calvary Chapel - Costa Mesa Searchlight - HomePastor Chuck Lind - Calvary Chapel of Olympia Wa. (a very very good church).Pastor Skip Heitzig - Ocean Community Church - Albuquerque NM Connect with Skip HeitzigThis message has been edited by AdminJar, 09-02-2005 06:59 PM

What a nice Christian response. I noticed you also ignored the point that persecution eventually forced them to stay out of what the Bible calls "Jewry", lands where the Pharissees and Saduccees were strong and kill them. That's why Jesus had no where to lay his head.As far as sending them out without anything, that was voluntary. Jesus told them not to take provision.This message has been edited by randman, 09-02-2005 08:54 PM

Actually, most versions translate that as In addition, there is no indication that it is his home or that Capernaum was his home of record.If you read Mark 1 you would see that he is NOT identified as Jesus of Capernaum as would be the case if he lived there.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

He was living there and stayed there for awhile. I don't doubt he was "from Nazareth" but his home for that time was Caperneum. Some scholars think it was Peter's home or mother's home.The truth is there is no reason to think Jesus didn't own a home. If he believed one could only be godly via poverty, and that having wealth was a sin as Chris claims, then how does that square with his ministry supported it seems via wealthy disciples that were his benefactors?

Try to stick to responding to things a poster has said.Ask Chris about his point of view, not me. Try sticking to the toic for a change.You said Jesus owned a home. You even did some quotemining to support your position. I simply posted the quotes in context so folk can read them.There is nothing in Mark that implies Jesus owned a house in Capernaum. It's time for you to simply acknowledge that there is no evidence that Jesus owned a house.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Here is a scripture that seems to indicate that Jesus had no house.

The evidence he owned a home is that the Bible mentions he had a home. You can take the position he doesn't own it if you like. There is no reason to think he wouldn't own the home, nor that he would not have owned a home in Nazareth before that. The text suggests it was his home.Are you saying he was renting it?Can you cite any evidence he was renting it, or that it belonged to someone other than Jesus?Edit to add that clearly it doesn't really matter if he owned a home or not, but the issue here is whether it is right for a Christian to own their own home, have money and even wealth. Imo, the text indicates Jesus had essentially moved to Capernaum, but was of course still "from Nazareth" and eventually he went from ministering out of any one area or place altogether, but still within that region so was in a sense in one area.As far as Chris' comments being alluded to, you chose to butt into the argument and responded to a post where Chris made a somewhat snide comment towards me, and I responded with the evidence from the scripture, word for word.This message has been edited by randman, 09-03-2005 12:27 AM

That statement has to be taken in context. First of all, even if his house in Capernaum was rented or loaned to him, he clearly had places to live if he wanted before and at times in the ministry. There is no reason to think he didn't have his own home in fact.But at times he didn't have a place to "lay his head" for 2 reasons.1. the crowds would not let him alone (as in Capernaum)
2. persecution which eventually prevented Jesus from ministering in certain areas

There is NOTHING in the Bible that supports him owning the house. Now if you wish to build more fantasies, fine. If you want to believe he owned it, fine. I provided the quotes and the content. Please point out where I said he was renting it.If you cannot point out where I said he was renting it, then retract your assertion.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I quoted the closest version of the Bible on hand, my son's NIV (I normally use the KJV).The NIV refers to the house as Jesus' "home." He had "returned home."You claim "most translations" without listing any translate "home" as "the house."Why "the house"?Why not translate "a house"?Usually when I am back at "the house", I am "home" but I suppose there are times when it could be someone else's house I am staying at.Contrary to your false accusation, I did offer textual evidence, which you snidely refer to as "quote-mining." If you don't want to accept the evidence, fine.You certainly have not refuted it.Edit to add. Care to retract your dishonest insinuations that I stated you claimed he was renting a house?This is what I said. I provided 2 different alternative scenarios to his owning the home he lived in. These are all the options I can think of. He either owned it, rented it, or it belonged to someone else and they let him stay there.Which one are you claiming and what is the textual evidence to back up that claim? You still have not offerred any real evidence, but arrogantly act like you have. If the evidence is there, offer it. This isn't even an issue to be dogmatic about. The text to me suggests he had a house/home in Capernaum.This message has been edited by randman, 09-03-2005 12:35 AMThis message has been edited by randman, 09-03-2005 12:37 AM

This is all a bit silly and drifting off topic. Personally, I believe that Jesus was welcome in many peoples homes and thus mi casa su casa...He had a lot of places to stay. He neither owned them nor rented them.That is my opinion.Getting back on topic, however, how many Christian leaders do as Jesus did? Peter and James declared that "silver and gold had they none"...which indicates that two of Jesus strongest followers lived as Jesus lived.It is one thing to simply have a car and a house. It is quite another to be personally entertwined with ministerial finances...especially if the ministry pulls in several million dollars a year.I volunteer with Youth For Christ, and believe me, I am more content not having to worry about fundraising and finances...except they occasionally buy me some gas for my car. Other than that, I don't get paid.