Reasons why the NeoCons aren't real Republicans

The emboldened section (and the rest of your comment) suggests that you are being a bit misinformed, Steve. It is possible that you are watching too much TV, and have never spoken to a muslim.There are a LOT of devout muslims out there who are not interested in establishing an islamic caliphate. You really shouldn't paint all muslims with the viewpoint you get from watching Fox (or the BBC). In the UK we're starting to see a muslim voting block who are consistently voting for a more secular political ideology and aligning themselves with a social democratic system. Take a look at the political revolution occurring in the east end of london. See any mention of a caliphate there?Why not chill out on the "clash of civilizations", "Christianity versus Islam" line, and take a closer look at some of the political diversity that exists within both religious groups?Mickadded in edit: here's a quote from the letter of support received by Salma Yaqoob from a number of London imams. Bear in mind that Salma's political party stands for "respect, equality, socialism, peace, environment, community and trade unionism"

quote:

---

At this vital time of the General Election, we the undersigned wish to express our support for Salma Yaqoob, the Respect candidate in the areas of Sparkbrook, Small Heath, Sparkhill and Fox Hollies in Birmingham. We feel that she is the best candidate in the constituency for the following reason:

​

She stood up and campaigned against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq in a brave and consistent manner. Even when others were not prepared to speak out, she has been a voice of principle.

​

The Labour MP pretends he is anti-war but on the final and crucial vote to authorise the war he voted in the House of Commons FOR the war to begin. The Liberal Democrat candidate has no record of campaigning around this vital issue.

​

Our community very much needs people of ability who can speak on our behalf in the House of Commons where decisions affecting the lives of millions of people are taken.

​

She has shown herself to be a capable representative as she has been effective in not only mobilising large members of people in demonstrations for just causes, but has spoken in front of millions of people in speeches and the media — both in this country and around the world.

​

She has brought to the forefront the issues of Kashmir and Palestine to non-Muslims and lobbied to defend the hijab — challenging the stereotypes and demonstration of Islam that has made life difficult for countless Muslims.

​

She is a voice of reason who is respected by all the different communities — Muslim and non-Muslim presenting a positive image, whilst remaining true to the values of Islam.

​

Not using the vote simply reinforces the hands of oppressive rulers and their unjust policies. It is the duty of every Muslim to support those people who stand for truth and justice — whoever they are. We urge the community to break away from the tradition or simply supporting those they have personal links with — representation and competency are the real issues. Allah says in the Qur'an:

​

"O you who believe! Stand up for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even if it goes against yourselves or your parents and relatives. Whether they are rich or poor, Allah is nearer to both (than you are). Do not follow your own desires and deviate from the truth. If you twist or turn away, Allah is aware of what you do." (4:134)

---

Principled, reasonable. Not scary.This message has been edited by mick, 07-17-2005 06:16 PM

Hi Steve,With respect, by describing moderate democractic Muslims as "disavowing aspects" of their faith, you are repeating the slurs of the fundamentalists. It is all to easy to say that "the faith" properly interpreted is incompatible with democracy. If that is all you are saying, then you will be a welcome western voice in agreement with the bin ladens of this world.I have shown by citing the letter from Birmingham's imams that Muslim scholars do not agree with you. They specifically say in the letter that I quoted that "Not using the vote simply reinforces the hands of oppressive rulers and their unjust policies. It is the duty of every Muslim to support those people who stand for truth and justice — whoever they are". That's a plain enough statement in support of a non-partisan democracy, and I'm willing to take the authors at their word. If I'm going to form an opinion on the compatibility of Islam with democracy, then I'll take it from the imams rather than from you.It's worth pointing out that saying an ideology or a movement is incompatible with democracy is one of the easiest ways of justifying war and oppression overseas. It was done with the Vietnamese, with the Nicaraguans, with the Venezuelans. It behoves us all not to make this kind of propagandist justification of the "clash of civilizations", otherwise known as "war on terror", otherwise known as "war of imperialism", in the present circumstances.Islam is compatible with democracy. That's what the imams say. That's what the moderate muslims of the world say. For you to suggest otherwise is to make the aims of muslim moderates more difficult for them to achieve. And it is the muslim moderates who will reform the more violent sects of Islam, not Christian commentators in the western world.Mick

Hmmn... This is very far left. This is the Guardian. There is a difference. Their embarassment, if it comes, will come from their being too in thrall to power, not from being too left wing. The majority of sociologists and economists would take issue with that statement. But it's a discussion for elsewhere, I guess.Let's get back to why neocons are evil! Apparently they smell, and leave crumbs in the bedclothes!Mick

In CanadianSteve's defence,I have lived in Canada for some time and know for a fact that the media we get here is rated on a very different political scale to the media we get in the UK. Compared to the media available in Canada, the Guardian is equivalent to a communist manifesto that is published daily.You might not believe this, Bobbins, but there is NO mainstream media outlet in Canada that is as leftwing as the Guardian. There is not even a media outlet anywhere near it. The main "lefty" newspaper is the Globe and Mail, which takes a political line somewhere between the Independent and the Times (yes I know, it's weird and ugly to imagine...). The "centrist" political position in Canada and the US is WAY to the right of the centrist position in the UK and elsewhere in Europe.For a Canadian, the Guardian is indeed "far left". In the Canadian media there appears to be no tradition of challenging authority. The idea that one might buy a newspaper like "Socialist Worker" or "Morning Star" in a regular newsagent is inconceivable here.Weird eh?Mick