rape culture/victim culture

One of the problems I have with the formula presented is the implication that the work in the house has been ‘ordered’ by the male. As an example, I once lived with a woman that vacuumed the living room every day. This was not a service she was providing me, but her fulfilling a personal need. That said, I’m for shared finances.

Interestingly enough, I was using ‘ordered’ as in ‘placing an order’, or ‘services desired’ and not as There better be dinner on the table right at 6 PM! My point was that there seems to be a presumption in these types of discussions that —any- housework done has economic value to both parties. Once someone poses housework in terms of I do for you, so you owe me then it is reasonable to ascertain who the work is actually being done for.In the same vein, it amuses me when some men make a big deal that they’re helping when they barbeque and then leave a huge mess for their spouse to clean up.This is why I personally work out these dynamics in a relationship as early possible.

My response was poorly worded, sorry. I was commenting on the entire tangent as I saw it applying to what you wrote. You were talking about time expenditure and others were commenting on issues such as the value of household work.I wasn’t contradicting you, but attempting to add to the discussion that the time a housekeeper spends on housework, while a fair indicator of time they spent, is not always a fair indicator of value performed for another (which relates to other posts such as contracycle’s). If anything I believe it tends to bring your numbers closer together.Before someone jumps up and points out that sometimes the person doing housework is doing the opposite, scrubbing marble floors because their spouse insists on homes with marble floors, agreed.

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Perhaps if fathers were given the chance to nurture early in their child's life they wouldn't be so reticent or hapless regarding "taking care of the kids" in general. Such rights would also go a long way to opposing the idea that men need to work outside of the home to support stay-at-home wives. Many men would like to be stay-at-home dads while their wives provide the source of income - as you say, if they want to they should quite whining and do so - yet such a scenario remains unaccepted by society's standards.

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I would say the haplessness is far more tied to waiting until they become parents to begin to learn caring skills. If woman want men to have certain skills, waiting until males are married is not the best approach.

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How did the discussion go from rape (Violent assault on another human being) to economic matters?

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Rape/power abuse/women being treated as property.
Spousal rape/power abuse in relationships/women being treated as property.

Well there is a bit of all over the place going on here. ;-)If I recall someone pointed out that at least in the US, until rather recently, men had rights to their spouses body. It used to be a legal tenant that a man could not actually rape his wife.

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When you marry both partys know (or should know) that you will share your assets

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Ideally, that would be the case.

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ITs just I can't quite get into my head what shared property in a marriage has to do with assault

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I see it that way myself. Oddly, enough if I accept the standard religious perspective of marriage being ‘mating for life’ I find it harder to support that a spouse has sole and exclusive rights over their body.

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The idea that bringing up a child is like a "paid vacation" is laughable. It is hard work, and there is no reason at all that a woman's employer or community should not pay her for that work, given that our employers want to have a market in the future (i.e. they need children to shill their wares to) and our communities generally don't want to go extinct due to people not being able to afford to have children...

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The proof of this would be that before there was family leave we were on the brink of extinction.The other proof would be that the less money a couple has tends to result in a lower rate of childbirth.Now, do you really buy either of those? In you are correct, isn’t that a really good reason to cut these benefits to slow the reproduction rate in the US?I don’t buy that we have a vested interest in facilitating the reproduction of members of society who wish to reproduce. I have a personal interest in educating members of society, but interestingly enough, society is more interested in protecting ‘parents rights’ in that area then ‘children’s rights’.

I don't disagree with your points. What seems lacking to me is the direct connection that 'pregnancy leave' has to those points. I suppose one can say that ‘pregnancy leave’ is one stone in the foundation.I don’t have a problem with pregnancy leave. I do have a problem with it not being a government program and as I said, I can see how arguments on how much and how long the benefits should run as being reasonable to engage in. Then again I have strong socialist leanings.

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yes, academic feminism is all about the accusation of gender bias. i am accusing them of being just as biased, and purposefully perpetuating such biases when they meet their needs.

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Definitely something one should be cautious of. I think part of this is ‘deprogramming’. I remember being one of a small minority of males in a ‘female studies’ seminar a couple of decades ago.