rape culture/victim culture

Brennakimi,The decision to have children can hardly be considered to be equivalent to the idea "Oh i want a puppy". These decisions are usually made carefully by man and woman together. The whole of society has an interest in facilitating the reproduction of members of society who wish to reproduce, which is why (in many countries) we all help pay for childcare, medical care etc. through our tax systems.The idea that bringing up a child is like a "paid vacation" is laughable. It is hard work, and there is no reason at all that a woman's employer or community should not pay her for that work, given that our employers want to have a market in the future (i.e. they need children to shill their wares to) and our communities generally don't want to go extinct due to people not being able to afford to have children...mick

oh come on. you need to say more than that, or nothing at all.mick

Hi Trae, Okay, I grant that talk of extinction is an exaggeration. But it's worth bearing in mind that some communities DO believe they are at risk because of their low birth rate. Throughout the twentieth century, French politicians of all colours expressed this fear. A low French birth rate was considered a real problem. In the contemporary state of Israel, there is much talk of the demographic time bomb - i.e. that the reproductive rate of Palestinians is "too high" and this is one reason that the Isreali state say they don't want Palestinian refugees to return to their homes, because it would result in the loss of the state's Jewish nature. I don't know about Israel, but in France the fact that communities feared their extinction was fundamental in instituting paid maternal leave after pregnancy. The less money a couple has, the higher the probability of their child dying before adulthood. This is a fact. It clearly shows the relationship between the economic situation of parents and the human rights of children. Improving education and the autonomy of women would cut the reproduction rate without the harmful effects on children of making their parents poorer. That's assuming we don't want to increase the infant mortality rate as a means of reducing population growth. If we agree that adults have the right to choose when and if they want to reproduce, then I think it's incumbent on us to facilitate it, i.e. give economic assistance if its necessary for the wellbeing of those children. Clearly that's irrespective of whether the families those kids are born into believe in evolution or not. Unfortunately (for those who bemoan the "special treatment" of women, the best result for kids tends to be specifically to give financial support to mothers rather than to fathers. This is well documented as far as I know so I'll try to find a link.CheersMick

my girlfriend did exactly that for eight months. Your hypothesis that no feminist exists who would consider dating a man who doesn't work, one who would leech off her, is hereby disproved.mickThis message has been edited by mick, 03-28-2005 12:30 PM

Hi brennakimi!Well... I am quite a loser...mick