rape culture/victim culture

Are you? If not, why are you acting like it? You need to be having the discussion with me, not with the voices in your head, ok? no, Arach, no. How many times do we have to go over this? The argument I'm making descibes gender biases and stereotypes. It doesn't support them, and it's not based on them. You don't have to "buy into them" in order to observe that some people do. Some people hold these stereotypes, as much as you'd like to pretend that they don't exist. Why is that such an enormous fucking problem for you?This message has been edited by crashfrog, 04-05-2005 06:59 PM

So, I can't say that "The Nazis exterminated millions of Jews during WWII" without supporting that action? I can't say that "Terrorists attacked the World Trade Center on 9/11" without advocating for Al-Qaida? I can't describe anything at all without implicitly supporting that action or position?This is idiocy of the highest caliber, Arach. A grown adult should be embarassed to be taking such a position. Here in the real world, its possible to describe things without saying those things are good. I'm sure you've done it yourself. And that's why its stupidity bordering on insanity for you to continue to repeat this claim.

It's not invalid, because we don't do that to understand seahorses, we do that to understand ourselves.Don't you get it, yet?

let's go back to your original argument, shall we?

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The alien reproduces by the forced implantation of material into other beings. How can you see that as ungendered? It's so hypermasculine that it emasculates the male victims by comparison; and then is defeated by the feminine. It's very gendered.

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nowhere do you state, "some people may read that as masculine" or "in terms of society, those are masculine features." you argued that not only COULD a masculine gender be applied to fictional freaking creature (andalso a very real very female wasp) but that such a gender SHOULD be applied.the argument for applying such a gender to it is based on the cultural understanding of gender roles, and stereotype of masculine and feminine behaviours. moreover, it is not a correct sociological understand of those gender roles, and comes off as extremely biased, and contrary to the intentions of people who wrote and directed the movie. no, you can. but this is not what we would call an objective opinion. let alone a fact. that the nazi's killed 11 million people in internment camps before and during ww2 is a documented fact. calling parasitic implantation a "male" feature is not. the documented fact actually point the other way, don't they? no, a grown adult should be shamed to be making such biased and irrational claims and appealing to stereotypes, while claiming to subscribe to a philosophy of rejecting them. and that is not what you've done. like it or not, your little bit of gender bias plays to a lot of societal bias. i think we all agree that rape is bad. anyone object?now, if we call rape a male quality, isn't that saying something bad about men? if i say 6 million jews were murdered by hitler and the nazi party, am i saying something bad about the jews, or hitler and the nazis? use your brain here. yes, and here's the understanding for you:you're wrong. you're only reading your own bias and stereotypes.

Implicit in the word "gender". You didn't understand the termonology then, which is why you got so confused about the argument.So what's your excuse now? No. But, as I've repeatedly stated, I don't have the huge chip on my shoulder about gender associtations that you do. It's no surprise that you constantly belabor this point - you're obsessed with the idea that I'm calling all men rapists by describing an association between sexual violence and masculinity, which is insanity, because I'm a man.Why would I call myself a rapist? Get over yourself, already. Isn't that exactly what I just said, Arach?

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Main Entry: 1gender
Pronunciation: 'jen-d&r
Function: noun

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2 a : SEX b : the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

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notice how it uses the words "typically associated?" typical associations are called "stereotypes." notice how, implicit in the definition, you are also assigning a sex to something when you "engender" it?i'm not confused by the argument. i think it's WRONG, and an application of outdated stereotyping. and you're not saying "this is how some people see it." you're saying "this is how it should be seen." that is the nature of argument. no, but this society has a huge chip on its shoulder about rape. rape it a bad thing as wee see it. calling rape the feature of one gender is calling one gender bad. calling one gender an agressor sexually is saying something bad about that gender. so not only is it a stereotype, but it's a BAD stereotype.if i were to say, "mugging is a black quality" how fast do you think i'd get lynched. or wait, nevermind, lynching -- that's a white quality. no you're not. you're a woman, because you're being moody and irrational. i agree. it's insane. ok. we're making progress. now, do you see why this is an invalid technique?This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 04-06-2005 02:25 AM

I don't talk to people that don't trouble themselves to work towards a consensus, dispite effort after effort on my part to help you understand.It's a waste of my time. Anyway I don't talk to anti-semites.

and i don't talk to sexists.

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if we were to call him female, we're reading our OWN gender roles into it, and our own societal biases and stereotypes. and that's invalid. that's simply my point.

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Why is this invalid?

why is creationism not valid?both fit objective reality into subjective and preconceived ideas. information is made to fit existing biases, and contrary data thrown away.

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why is creationism not valid?

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both fit objective reality into subjective and preconceived ideas. information is made to fit existing biases, and contrary data thrown away.

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Oh, so your philosophical opinions about how we use the words "sex" and "gender" are "objective reality" now?Tell me, what scientific papers can you cite to support your claim?Also, what "evidence" is crashfrog "throwing away"?This message has been edited by schrafinator, 04-07-2005 07:54 AM

I believe it is the rock-solid, indisputable evidence of an interpretation of a fictional mythology of a Hollywood movie series.That's what started this silly mess, anyway.

how does randomly labeling stuff help us understand ourselves? it doesn't. that's crap. youre simply problematizing. mountain out of a molehill. people are idiots and don't get along. it's not because some are male and some are female; it is because all are stupid and selfish.

well if that was because he didn't understand the terminology, then you are at fault for not defining yourself. which you have, previously stated as being something you don't like to do. apparently it's because it leaves you an out of a losing argument to go back and say 'oh but you just didn't understand what i meant'. then define your terms. you're being an ass. stop.

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problematizing.

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Oh my God, I am so glad I mostly stayed away from the humanities.