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Author Topic:   governor of ohio removes abstinence-only program from budget
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2210 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 16 of 62 (391947)
03-28-2007 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by riVeRraT
03-27-2007 11:33 PM


actually, my point was that most kids don't learn to masturbate, they just do it. they brush against something and get a thrill and keep doing it.

kids learn to mis-treat women from their parents, you're right. they don't learn it from the media, even though everyone wants to blame the media.

kids don't learn sex from the media either. they learn it from their own natural desires.

i can't see it because it's not about what's going on in the world, it's about the fact that people no longer parent their children.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by riVeRraT, posted 03-27-2007 11:33 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2007 9:47 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 202 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 17 of 62 (391960)
03-28-2007 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by macaroniandcheese
03-28-2007 8:12 AM


kids don't learn sex from the media either. they learn it from their own natural desires.

I know. This is so obvious, it's rather silly that people decided to comment on this obvious fact, and ridicule me, while totally missing the point.

Sex is good, sex is grand, but the question is, what kind of sex?

Example, in a rap MTV video, the women seem to be treated as objects, part of the rappers bling. What message is that sending to our children?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-28-2007 8:12 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-28-2007 3:52 PM riVeRraT has responded

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 62 (391975)
03-28-2007 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by riVeRraT
03-27-2007 11:14 PM


But seriously, there is a line between be able to have sex, and being responsible enough to have sex. 12 year children are not responsible enough.

What's your point? I wasn't saying anything about whether or not they should... only that they're going to want to, whether they're exposed to television or not.

Ever see the forty year old virgin? If you think that all people automatically become sexually active when reaching a certain age, your living in a dream world.

Yeah, that movie's a stirring insight into biology. I remember when I lost my virginity, and reality warped around me so that all my friends could run in and sing Age of Aquarius.

That being said, I didn't say everyone loses their virginity the second they get horny. Only that the fact of being a teenager makes a person hornier than every episode of Lilo & Stitch combined (or whatever they're showing on the Disney Channel these days).

You speak from experience?

Having been a teenager who had sex with other teenagers? Sure.


"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by riVeRraT, posted 03-27-2007 11:14 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2007 11:50 PM Dan Carroll has responded

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2194 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 19 of 62 (391991)
03-28-2007 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by riVeRraT
03-27-2007 11:27 PM


Re: Kids need REAL sex education.
My kids are free to do whatever they want, as long as it meets the ratings, and they are passing there classes, and off drugs.

What if your kid WANTED those CDs? Do you really think that you forbidding his exploration into the musical stylings of 50 cent or Ja Rule is going to actually stop him? Maybe you have some kind of relationship with your son that I just don't understand but IMO the moment you said, "...as long as it..." you treaded immediatly into that territory of proscriptive parenting that I described earlier. Again, that may be okay for you and your family. I am just expressing what I think was not okay for our family and what I noticed NOT working in other families of close friends as I was growing up.

I understand why you feel that way, and I agree with you to an extent, but I would take that bet. from my conversations with older folk (older than me) things were much different back then (not saying back then was better) But the age at which most of this crazy stuff starts happening, seems to be happening a lot earlier. Even in the last 20 years.

While I don't totally disagree, I think there is a propensity in any given generation X to do things that the generation X-1 thinks is leading society into the pits of hell. If you can recognize that you can temper your disdain for new aspects of culture that you son is growing up in that you disagree with.

I think little girls who idolize people like Paris Hilton as going too far. But I have to wonder how much of that is due to parents not caring about what their children do or parents who keep such a tight grip on their kids that they rebel behind their backs. It seems to me that if parents of these "outrageous" kids would have investigated the popular appeal of whatever behavior we think of as destructive that many of the actual outcomes would be different.

The key here is that I feel like lording over your children is just as bad as tossing them to the wolves. My approach to teaching my son is as that of a Father-Friend rather than a Father-Master. I don't know if it is going to work out in the end but it did seem to work for me and my siblings.

If I were you, rather than return or throw out those CDs, I would take you son to the CD store, have him buy a couple of the ones he wants the most, listen to them together, and talk about what is appealing about the music and if you really dis/agree with what the artists are saying. After that, if he still wants to listen to that kind of music, let him. To each his own though and I hope that however you handle the situation it works out for the better.


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Asgara, posted 03-28-2007 1:36 PM Jazzns has responded

Asgara
Member (Idle past 585 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 20 of 62 (392001)
03-28-2007 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Jazzns
03-28-2007 12:49 PM


Re: Kids need REAL sex education.
Great advice Jazzns!

Speaking as a parent of 2 adult children, that is pretty much how I raised my kids. I didn't censor anything they read, listened to, or watch other than to try and watch or listen with them when able.

I taught my kids from a very young age about the mechanics of sex and was available to answer any and all questions as honestly as I could. I had questions concerning oral sex and prostitution a lot earlier than I had hoped but the questions were sincere and my answers involved logistics as well as my own views on the topics.

My kids picked up on my views very early and ended up with a great distain for music and movies that portrayed anyone as objects. Neither one would be caught dead in the "latest fad" clothing or in items that cost an arm and a leg solely for the privilege of doing some designer's advertising for them.

My kids are not promiscuous or into drugs or alcohol. One is a college graduate with a 3.7 gpa and one is in college currently holding the same gpa. They are well adjusted, healthy, intelligent individuals.

I attribute all this to an open, non-restrictive relationship with my kids. The friends who looked on in horror as they realized that my 4 year old knew what a vagina was or that my 10 year old knew what a blow job was ended up with kids that snuck out and did all kinds of things behind their parent's back...all while wearing A&F outfits that their parents couldn't really afford.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Jazzns, posted 03-28-2007 12:49 PM Jazzns has responded

Replies to this message:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2194 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 21 of 62 (392004)
03-28-2007 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Asgara
03-28-2007 1:36 PM


Re: Kids need REAL sex education.
Its good to know that those approaches to parenting work elsewhere. I mean, I have not read any parenting books to base my opinion on, to me it is just common sense. I guess that could be one criticism of my opinion.

I suppose that as my child gets older I will probably take an interest in more formal representations of my UTP (Universal Theorey of Parenting). For right now we are working on blowing kisses and NOT throwing your sippy cup off your of high chair when it is empty.


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2210 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 22 of 62 (392010)
03-28-2007 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by riVeRraT
03-28-2007 9:47 AM


that mtv rap videos are made for adults and that their parents should be controlling the inputs their children are exposed to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2007 9:47 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by riVeRraT, posted 03-29-2007 12:01 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2210 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 23 of 62 (392037)
03-28-2007 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by riVeRraT
03-27-2007 11:33 PM


also, just because masturbation was an issue for you doesn't mean it's an evil addicting thing for the rest of us. what is it about masturbation that's so not okay?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by riVeRraT, posted 03-27-2007 11:33 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2007 11:56 PM macaroniandcheese has not yet responded

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2210 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 24 of 62 (392038)
03-28-2007 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Jazzns
03-28-2007 2:05 PM


Re: Kids need REAL sex education.
i miss my sippy cup and everything it stood for.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Jazzns, posted 03-28-2007 2:05 PM Jazzns has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-28-2007 10:24 PM macaroniandcheese has not yet responded

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 62 (392051)
03-28-2007 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by macaroniandcheese
03-28-2007 8:37 PM


Re: Kids need REAL sex education.
Sweet internet Jesus, does that post need a different title.


"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-28-2007 8:37 PM macaroniandcheese has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Jazzns, posted 03-29-2007 11:15 AM Dan Carroll has responded

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 202 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 26 of 62 (392059)
03-28-2007 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dan Carroll
03-28-2007 11:23 AM


That being said, I didn't say everyone loses their virginity the second they get horny. Only that the fact of being a teenager makes a person hornier than every episode of Lilo & Stitch combined (or whatever they're showing on the Disney Channel these days).

Yes, teenagers are horny, thanks for pointing out the completely obvious. If you care to read the rest of my posts, you'll understand the point.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-28-2007 11:23 AM Dan Carroll has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-29-2007 10:09 AM riVeRraT has not yet responded

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 202 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 27 of 62 (392060)
03-28-2007 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by macaroniandcheese
03-28-2007 8:32 PM


Masturbation is ok, I never said it wasn't.

I mean in the grand scheme of things, it actually calms things down a bit. It kept me from sleeping around too much when I was younger. Who knows, maybe I would have AIDS by now.
I was raised being told it was ok. But the thing was, when I stopped for awhile, I noticed a big difference in my life. Now I don't do it nearly as much as I did before I experienced it. I think my spirit fights with my flesh over it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-28-2007 8:32 PM macaroniandcheese has not yet responded

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 202 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 28 of 62 (392062)
03-29-2007 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by macaroniandcheese
03-28-2007 3:52 PM


that mtv rap videos are made for adults and that their parents should be controlling the inputs their children are exposed to.

WOW Brenna, you've got to be kidding me.
So it's ok for a Public school teacher to give my 12 year old that same rap, yet I can't let him listen to it, or see it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-28-2007 3:52 PM macaroniandcheese has responded

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2210 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 29 of 62 (392068)
03-29-2007 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by riVeRraT
03-29-2007 12:01 AM


no, i said it's ok for mtv to show nasty music videos. i said nothing about your teacher issue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by riVeRraT, posted 03-29-2007 12:01 AM riVeRraT has not yet responded

nator
Member (Idle past 452 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 30 of 62 (392090)
03-29-2007 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Jazzns
03-27-2007 11:52 AM


Re: Kids need REAL sex education.
quote:
I am willing to bet that if you removed all music, TV, video games, and advertisements from our culture and replaced it with classical music, Sessame Street, and Canasta that you would still have the exact same problems with teen pregnancy today as long as parents, or the school system as a surrogate, are taking a hands off approach to REAL sex education.

While I definitely agree with your assesment of abstinence-only sex ed, I have to disagree with your assesment of the effect of culture.

There has definitely been a trend in recent decades to sexualize younger and younger children. Have you seen the clothing that is available for girls these days? Low-rider jeans, shoes with heels, and even padded bras for little, little girls. We're talking for 6 or 8 year olds. And there is also the trend of having things written over the backside area of sweatpants for women that I have also seen on clothing sized for 10 year olds. Those words on your butt are meant to get people to look at your butt. I mean, do they want people looking at their pre-pubescent daughters' butts?

And here's what one feminist mother in the comments section of the link above had to say about the Bratz clothing line for little girls:

And don't get me started on Bratz! I think both the dolls and clothes are just dreadful - and most of the moms I know agree. While I always thought the dolls were creepy (they look like oversexed, collagen-injected Barbies to me), it was a Bratz skirt for girls that really made me hate the brand. Could you imagine a four year old in a black vinyl mini-skirt with a giant set of pink lips on the left butt cheek? How about an off-the-shoulder cut up hot pink t-shirt to match? My then four-year-old begged for it while I stood in horror wondering what combination of pervs and idiots thought those clothes were appropriate for children.

Check it out:

I want to make it clear that I am all for shame-free sexuality but I am fairly certain that your average 6 year old girl hasn't yet developed hormonally or physically in that way.

And can't we find a way for girls to be sexual beings in this country without screaming at them from every media and advertizing outlet "WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE (AND YOU'D BETTER BE SEXY, THIN AND BUSTY) IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD!!!"

Edited by nator, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Jazzns, posted 03-27-2007 11:52 AM Jazzns has responded

Replies to this message:
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