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Author Topic:   Same sex marriage
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2795 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 31 of 165 (47589)
07-27-2003 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by DC85
07-27-2003 2:34 PM


DC85 writes:
... you don't see Homosexuality in other animals ...
My dog had this cute bitch running around with him for months. He was humping her a lot, so I wondered why she never got pregnant. Then one day I happened to be in a position to notice that the little bitch had a set of balls.
Wanna hear about the cat that gave head to dogs?
db
------------------
Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 32 of 165 (47590)
07-27-2003 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by DC85
07-27-2003 2:34 PM


Personally I don't see how homosexuality is Possible your Brain can not be in the wrong type of Body. Because its not your brain that makes you feel that way its the chemicals in your body. how can a male possibly have Female ones if they are a male?
Because sexuality isn't this simple. Homosexuality isn't a condition of having a female brain in a man's body (or vice-versa) - otherwise, don't you think all gay men would be cross-dressers? (They're not.)
A gay man isn't a woman in a man's body, he's a man who is sexually attracted to men. The most interesting thing is, human sexuality is a continumm, not a bivalent quality. There's a range of states between full-on gay and religiously straight.
I'm sure one of us here can reccomend a good book on human sexuality, or I could ask one of my gender-studies friends if you're really interested.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by mark24, posted 07-27-2003 4:17 PM crashfrog has replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5226 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 33 of 165 (47591)
07-27-2003 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by crashfrog
07-27-2003 3:46 PM


Crash,
I think you are partly right, most heterosexuals/homesexuals/lesbians are exactly that, they are polar in that they are attracted to one sex or the other. Bisexuality on the other hand, the continuum you mention, is much more in the minority.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by crashfrog, posted 07-27-2003 3:46 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 07-27-2003 6:27 PM mark24 has not replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2333 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 34 of 165 (47592)
07-27-2003 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by DC85
07-27-2003 2:34 PM


Hi DC,
The chemicals in your body during gestation are responsible for how your brain ends up hardwired. Depending on the hormone concentration present in the mother during pregnancy, the baby's brain can be wired in any number of ways. A very good book that discusses this is Brain Sex by Anne Moir and David Jessel. If you can't find the book here is a short synopsis of parts of the book.
The sexuality spectrum runs from extremely masculine males through extremely feminine females, with everything in between.
As for non-human animals, there are numerous cases of homosexual or bi-sexual behavior in the animal kingdom. One article discussing this can be found here. Differing sexual behavior is found in domestic and wild animals such as Japanese macaques, domestic and wild sheep, and various penquin populations, just to mention a few. Read some of Jane Goodall's work with chimpanzees.
Biologist Bruce Bagemihl has written a book about this, Biological Exuberance.
Tomorrow night (July 28) National Geographic is suppose to air a program called Out In Nature
http://www.rnw.nl/lifestyle/html/gayanimals000808.html
------------------
Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 35 of 165 (47607)
07-27-2003 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by mark24
07-27-2003 4:17 PM


I think you are partly right, most heterosexuals/homesexuals/lesbians are exactly that, they are polar in that they are attracted to one sex or the other. Bisexuality on the other hand, the continuum you mention, is much more in the minority.
To the contrary; the studies show that most people inhabit somewhere within the two extremes - it's very rare for a person to be absolutely straight or absolutely gay. There's more in the middle than just bisexuality. For instance, heterosexual with incidental homosexual behavior. Or persons with a limited sexual attraction to the occasional person of opposite gender as they usually go for.
Now, what we'll admit to being attracted to is a different matter. But behaviorally most people inhabit one end or the other of the gray area.

This message is a reply to:
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DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 36 of 165 (47624)
07-27-2003 10:30 PM


thanks guys I will read the book to understand better.... because I don't want to down people that are I just don't understand how so I am very uncomfortable because I am wondering "how?" all the time. I will read up on it Because sometimes I sway away from people it makes them think I don't like them for it when thats not the case.

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 37 of 165 (47642)
07-28-2003 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by DC85
07-27-2003 10:30 PM


I just don't understand how so I am very uncomfortable because I am wondering "how?" all the time.
What's not to understand about gay people? Sexual preference is just that, a preference, like your favorite flavor of ice cream, for instance.
I like mint ice cream. Gay men like penises. What's so complicated about that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by DC85, posted 07-27-2003 10:30 PM DC85 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by MrHambre, posted 07-28-2003 5:19 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 48 by derwood, posted 07-29-2003 1:21 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 38 of 165 (47691)
07-28-2003 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by DC85
07-27-2003 2:34 PM


DC85 writes:
quote:
I don't criticize but
Um...if you have to use the word "but," then you're criticizing.
quote:
Personally I don't see how homosexuality is Possible
Why? You certainly hope that somebody of a certain sex finds your sex attractive, yes? Then what is so bizarre with someone of the other sex also finding it attractive? Only females can find males sexy? Only males can find females sexy?
quote:
your Brain can not be in the wrong type of Body.
Um, you've just confused transgender with homosexuality. Gay men don't want to be women. They don't think they are women. Gay women don't want to be men. They don't think they are men. They are men and women who identify as men and women, respectively, and want to have sex with their own sex.
quote:
Because its not your brain that makes you feel that way its the chemicals in your body.
How can you separate the brain from its neurotransmitters? A neuron cannot interact with any other neuron without the release of neurotransmitters. If your neurotransmitters are released making you aroused when you see someone of your own sex, it's your brain that is responding because those neurotransmitters are part of your brain.
quote:
how can a male possibly have Female ones if they are a male?
You seem to think that a male who is gay has excess estrogen or that a female who is gay has excess testosterone. This isn't true.
By the way, males do produce estrogen in the adrenal glands. Too, testosterone is converted into the female hormone estradiol in the brain. It's part of the hormone regulation system. The same FH/LSH cycle in women happens in men, too, but rather than the estrogen being the trigger, the testosterone has to get converted into a form that the brain recognizes...and it happens to be the female hormone, estradiol.
quote:
you don't see Homosexuality in other animals so why us?
Oh, you most certainly do. In fact, homosexuality has been seen in pretty much every mammalian species and many non-mammalian species, too.
I highly recommend Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity by Bruce Bagemihl. It has an exhaustive list of the species in which homosexual activity has been seen and the book, itself, describes how it appears. In some species, members of the same sex often pair-bond for life, just like their heterosexual counterparts.
There's a very nice point in the book:
Astounding as it sounds, a number of scientists have actually argued that when a female Bonobo wraps her legs around another female ... while emitting screams of enjoyment, this is actually "greeting" behavior, or "appeasement" behavior ... almost anything, it seems, besides pleasurable sexual behavior.
quote:
(we are animals and Love is only the word we use for attachment and a true love is the chosen mate I don't believe we have Feelings other animals don't)
So why the attitude? Even if we were to assume that only humans are gay, why is that problematic? Humans do not behave like dogs even though dogs are also animals. Dogs don't behave like cats. Cats don't behave like birds. Birds don't behave like fish. Fish don't behave like insects. Why should humans behave like other animals?
quote:
I am not downing it I just don't understand........
What's not to understand?
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by DC85, posted 07-27-2003 2:34 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-28-2003 10:24 AM Rrhain has not replied
 Message 45 by DC85, posted 07-29-2003 1:34 AM Rrhain has replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 165 (47705)
07-28-2003 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Rrhain
07-28-2003 9:18 AM


Astounding as it sounds, a number of scientists have actually argued that when a female Bonobo wraps her legs around another female ... while emitting screams of enjoyment, this is actually "greeting" behavior, or "appeasement" behavior ... almost anything, it seems, besides pleasurable sexual behavior.
I wish women would greet me that way.
Human women, that is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Rrhain, posted 07-28-2003 9:18 AM Rrhain has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by NosyNed, posted 07-28-2003 11:44 AM Dan Carroll has not replied
 Message 41 by Mammuthus, posted 07-28-2003 12:04 PM Dan Carroll has not replied
 Message 42 by zephyr, posted 07-28-2003 12:35 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 40 of 165 (47728)
07-28-2003 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Dan Carroll
07-28-2003 10:24 AM


Fussy, aren't you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-28-2003 10:24 AM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6506 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 41 of 165 (47734)
07-28-2003 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Dan Carroll
07-28-2003 10:24 AM


careful what you wish for

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-28-2003 10:24 AM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4581 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 42 of 165 (47740)
07-28-2003 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Dan Carroll
07-28-2003 10:24 AM


quote:
I wish women would greet me that way.
Just wander around Bourbon Street late at night, and eventually something like that will happen. =O
Just a matter of time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-28-2003 10:24 AM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 43 of 165 (47777)
07-28-2003 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by crashfrog
07-28-2003 2:34 AM


quote:
I like mint ice cream. Gay men like penises. What's so complicated about that?
I see a new Ben & Jerry's flavor in the works.
------------------
En la tierra de ciegos, el tuerco es el Rey.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by crashfrog, posted 07-28-2003 2:34 AM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-28-2003 5:23 PM MrHambre has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 165 (47778)
07-28-2003 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by MrHambre
07-28-2003 5:19 PM


"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If he were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralenes and dick." - Dana Carvey

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by MrHambre, posted 07-28-2003 5:19 PM MrHambre has not replied

  
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 45 of 165 (47814)
07-29-2003 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Rrhain
07-28-2003 9:18 AM


was that post really needed? I already admited I need to learn more and that I am wrong(not the exact word "wrong" but if you can't figure it out well...) Once the Person does that there is no reason to go further and Repeat what others in the topic have already said Unless the person doesn't Understand what was said. thank you for your time though...............

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Rrhain, posted 07-28-2003 9:18 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Rrhain, posted 07-29-2003 2:26 AM DC85 has replied

  
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