Holmes writes:
That's my line. If this is your position then why are YOU attacking ME, instead of BUZ?
Yes, we agree on many things, especially evolution. I've gotten value out of a number of your posts.
I guess I should let Buz and the other Christians fend for themselves (are they even listening?), but I feel compelled to dispel some myths about them. It's not just you. I see a number of evolutionists express opinions about Christians that I think are incorrect... based on my 30 yrs of experience with them. When I was younger, I had similar attitudes, feelings and opinions as you guys, though. That changed over the years, as I learned to appreciate their value to American society. I used to debate these things with my Christian friends (about 20 of them from 3 different churches) until it became clear neither of us would change the other's "open" mind. Maybe that's why I express the futility of arguing with them in some of my posts.
However, I could channel that bigotry into a legal campaign against the behavior of homosexuals and convince enough of my fellow men to "do something" about them. Then I wouldn't have to go about beating up "fags", I could call a cop and have them arrested and put into prison... with the threat that if they do not comply, then they will be beaten for being a homosexual.
I know of no instance where Christians I know promote bigotry or violence, either against homosexuals or any other group. Christians believe homosexual behavior is sinful, but there is no punishment other than God's. I think you and others are mistaking the protection of man/woman marriage and the desire not to have overt behavior in your face as something mean and hateful. Sorry, but I don't interpret their statements the way you do.
All you (or Buz) have to do is show me an evangelical group that has millions of followers, and whose leaders profess that the OT is not fair game for rationalizing action, and that violence is never allowed under any circumstance.
Now I am saying I have quite a bit of experience with most of the major evangelical organizations. Their leaders (and I provided a list of some) quote OT for justification of violence against certain groups
Granted, I don't follow what the leaders say, but I think I would have heard in the news about the Pope saying something like you describe. Christians (fundamentalists) follow the NT for "laws", not the OT.
Are you seriously telling me you never heard of gay bashings, racially motivated murders, Timothy McVeigh, Waco, abortion clinic shootings and bombings?
C'mon! These are not condoned by Christian leaders or Christians, except a few radicals. The Waco group could hardly be called anything but a small irrelavent cult, and the violent event was government against citizens.
Do you not remember the evangelicals using 9-11 as a reason that the nation needs to crack down on homosexuals, pagans, atheists, etc etc? If not, then you are not listening to media at all. It was all over the place.
No! And I listen to the media.
I haven't heard about Pat Robertson, but I don't doubt what you say there. I think I do remember something about Jerry Falwell, but isn't he insignificant nowadays? In my older years the non-important stuff just doesn't get retained (no offense to Jerry supporters, but he's not on my radar).
if your Xian friends were for the Afghanistan War or the Iraq War or the War on Terror, then they do advocate the use of violence of some kind
I consider the "attack or not" issue a political one, not religious. Hey, I'm not a Christian and I favored an attack! (I don't want to pursue a thread on that topic)
Oh, well. Peace. I am ready to debate the Creationists, now! You can have the last word (from me, anyway!).
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