Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,913 Year: 4,170/9,624 Month: 1,041/974 Week: 368/286 Day: 11/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Biogeography falsifies the worldwide flood.
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 204 (69704)
11-28-2003 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Randy
11-28-2003 9:58 AM


quote:
This is totally irrelevant to the problem of biogeography unless you think Noah was dropping off animals at various places during the trip.
I'm surprised the Flood geologists haven't suggested this themselves.
quote:
However, it is also irrelevant unless there was a land bridge created with a magic gatekeeper who only allowed marsupials, monotremes and specific flightless birds to pass by land
An angel with a flaming sword, perhaps?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Randy, posted 11-28-2003 9:58 AM Randy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Brad McFall, posted 11-29-2003 3:16 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 105 of 204 (111933)
05-31-2004 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by jar
05-31-2004 8:55 PM


Re: The olive branch is a living substance!!!
Jar, stop that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 05-31-2004 8:55 PM jar has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 204 (122775)
07-07-2004 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Robert Byers
07-07-2004 4:03 PM


quote:
I conclude marsupialism is not a big change any more then colour change in people after the flood.
This is absurd. There is much, much more difference between marsupials and placentals than just there mode of reproduction. Morphologically, the marsupials are much closer to each other than they are to any placental -- given a skeleton, a good mammalian taxonimist would be able to classify it as either marsupial or placental. This is a post by Doubting Didymous on the Internet Infidels message board:
The thing I find most hilarious about this one is the claim that marsupial species that have converged with eutherian species are practically the same bar the reproductive equipment.
Truly giggleworthy. In fact, as with all evolutionary convergenced, the similarity is only superficial, and the biological details show the real descent of the species.
Let me see if my rusty memory can serve me well enough.
Dealing only with the skull, converged marsupial species should have the following major anatomical features in common with other marsupials, and different from all placentals:
Heavy, obviously pronounced jugal arches. That's those sticky-out cheekbone things.
Defenestrated upper pallate. That's holes in the bone plate in the roof of the mouth.
Absent tympanic bullae. These are some lumps under the skull associated with hearing. In placentals they're entirely bony but marsupials either lack them, or they are made mostly from cartilage.
Ahhhm... oh yes, the actual cranium will be significantly thinner, smaller and more elongated in the marsupial than in the placental.
And there's something to do with the ratio of incisors/canines and molars, and the diastema in the teeth in the top jaw, but I've forgotten the numbers.
These are just the major features of one small chunk of the organism (the skull), that will clearly show undeniable commonality with other marsupials. A similar list can doubtless be made for any other feature of the organism. The claim that things like the thylacine are basically wolves with pouches is really quite funny.
This also doesn't include such things as the phylogenic trees based on genetics and molecular biology also confirm that marsupials are only very distantly related to placental mammals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Robert Byers, posted 07-07-2004 4:03 PM Robert Byers has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Robert Byers, posted 07-09-2004 4:41 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 156 of 204 (123615)
07-10-2004 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Robert Byers
07-09-2004 4:41 PM


Wow. Detailed anatomical comparisons, some quite subtle, indicate that the marsupial "wolf", the kangaroo, the koala, and the North American opossum are closely related to each other, but not very closely related to the placental mammals. Molecular biology confirms this.
But we should ignore this. The marsupial "wolf" looks like a wolf at first glance, and so we should place it in the "dog kind". Such a breath taking advance in the science of taxonomy.
Edited to add:
By this same "logic" we should classify whales as fish.
This message has been edited by Chiroptera, 07-10-2004 12:47 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Robert Byers, posted 07-09-2004 4:41 PM Robert Byers has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Robert Byers, posted 07-10-2004 2:19 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 163 of 204 (123626)
07-10-2004 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Robert Byers
07-10-2004 2:19 PM


quote:
It fact evolutionists must reach with theories to accomadate this mater.
Actually, it was known before Darwin that life can be classified according to a heirarchical pattern, and that this pattern is obvious when one looks beyond superficial appearances.
-
quote:
Its called convergent evolution and any book will discuss it.
Yes, the marsupial wolf looks, superficially, like a placental wolf because of convergent evolution. What is your problem here? Convergent evolution explains superficial similarities. Like why a marsupial wolf looks superficially like a placental wolf. Why a whale looks superficially like a fish. Why a bat looks superficially like a bird. Convergent evolution cannot explain the much more subtle morphological features that make it obvious that the carnivorous and fast marsupial wolf is related to the herbivorous and largely sedentary koala.
--
quote:
First disprove the obvious then get creative.
Actually, nothing beats the creativity of creationists when they have to struggle against facts. Nasty things, those facts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Robert Byers, posted 07-10-2004 2:19 PM Robert Byers has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 165 of 204 (123635)
07-10-2004 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Robert Byers
07-10-2004 2:13 PM


quote:
So a marsupial kangaroo and marsupial wolf DNA could be similiar because the reproduction business dominates in the DNA.
What about the sections of DNA that don't code for reproductive organs?
And to test your theory, do you think the DNA of the egg-laying playipus is going to be more like that of egg-laying reptiles (or birds), or more like live bearing mammals?
Do you know that there are sharks that give birth to live young? Do you expect that these sharks should have DNA more like mammals or more like other sharks?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Robert Byers, posted 07-10-2004 2:13 PM Robert Byers has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Robert Byers, posted 07-16-2004 4:11 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 173 of 204 (123743)
07-11-2004 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Steen
07-11-2004 1:35 AM


BWAHAHAHAHA!
quote:
And "marsupialization" is a micro-change?
Good point, Steen! It appears that our creationist friends are now beginning to fudge the whole "microevolution/macroevolution" distinction. That's what happens when good God-fearing Christians compromise by accepting microevolution to begin with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Steen, posted 07-11-2004 1:35 AM Steen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Steen, posted 07-11-2004 3:17 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 185 of 204 (125083)
07-16-2004 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Robert Byers
07-16-2004 4:40 PM


Bwahahahaha!
quote:
i have proven that Marsupial biogeography fits creationists models of the past fine.
Actually, all you did was assert that all the placental animals in Australia microevolved pouches. And microevolved the tendency to give birth to, essentially, fetuses. And all microevolved prominent cheekbones. And they all microevolved certain holes in the roof of the mouth that other mammals never microevolved. And that they are the only ones to microevolve the tympanic bullae. And they all microevolved thinner, longer skulls. And no other mammal microevolved this combination of features. Except the oppossum in North America, which was evidently the only North American animal which found itself in an Australia-like environment, forcing it to microevolve the same set of features.
I hope the person who bakes your victory cake is a better cook than you are a logician.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Robert Byers, posted 07-16-2004 4:40 PM Robert Byers has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024