Biogeography falsifies the worldwide flood.

Randy, We all know the bible doesn't infer that only Noah and them on the ark survived, if you disagree, check what the word "only" means in hebrew [means: non the less], within the context with this verse, interestingly, The bible states it was summer in the southern hemisphere at the time of the flood, so the platapus would of survived quite well swimming out the flood, but cattle wouldn't of been able to survive a deluge, cause they couldn't of climbed unto the floating mats of refuge, but the platapus could have and even today they are commonly seen sleeping on floating branches on rivers, but no native cattle like creatures in Australia, because they all drowned, proving it was a biogeographical world flood, unless you can prove Austraila has hoofed creatures native to Australia, etc...P.S. I don't believe you will find any native hoofed creatures to Australia, cause hoofed creatures wouldn't of been able to survive a worldwide flood, outside of an ark, and without a land bridge, non could migrate to Australia, cause no land bridge after the biblical deluge, etc...

Randy, If you read the bible a bit more literally, you will see that all the creatures that drowned perished on the surface of the earth, but the ones that survived would of survived above the surface of the earth(walrus, seals, whales, dolphins, snakes, insects, etc...), etc...P.S. It says all that had the breath through nostrils that was "of" the dry land perished, means to me they drowned cause they were of the dry land, thats why you will find no native like cattle creatures that survived the deluge, though all the other creatures would of had claws to climb aboard the floating debris or was able to swim out the flood like certain sea birds, penquins, etc..., with all the fresh water rising up over the continents, given the deluge lasted only 40 days, but after a year the earth was dry land again, and the creatures, plants seeds, grass, herbs, reseeded Australia, it was not like the northern hemisphere that was glaciated, etc...This message has been edited by whatever, 05-30-2004 11:04 PM

Randy, I'd think a mole would come out of the ground as the water filled his tunnels, and it would of climbed upward, cause it had claws, if birds could float(even if they couldn't fly), they could of swam out the flood, not sure about small birds, but the albratross, penquins, ostrich, when it talks about all that breathed through their nostrils on the earth perished, if the waters covered the earth and you remained on the surface you too would perish, but Noah survived cause he was not on the surface of the earth, but floating up above the surface as was all these other creatures, like in South America, Africa, Australia, New Zealand, etc...P.S. What one of your creatures have hoofs, that survived the flood, if you have none, then its because they were creatures of the earth, and perished on the surface of the earth, because they were creatures of the dry land, they couldn't climb aboard the floating debris cause they had hoofs, and because they breathed through their nostrils they perished on the surface of the earth (drowned)(lungs filled with water), etc...You need to look at the whole world, certain creatures in certain locals, not native to other locals, etc...The hoofed creatures survived aboard the ark, it even talks of Noah and the cattle aboard the ark, granted he had lots of the other creatures too, birds that wouldn't of survived outside the ark, but no need for walrus, seals, cause they would of survived quite well outside the ark, even though they too breathed through nostrils, but they were not bound to the surface of the earth, so in reading the verse, yes all creatures that were on the surface of the earth perished, but that can only mean that the ones that remained not on the surface of the earth didn't all perish, that's my take on it all, cause if they remained not on the surface of the earth they would still beable to breath through their nostrils, however the ones that remained on the earths surface cause they were creatures of the dry land, their lungs filled with water and they all perished, etc...P.S. Kangaroo's have claws, smaller varieties are tree dwellers, and they swim extremely well, still waiting for your hoofed creatures, if you have none, its cause they all perished in the world flood, etc...This message has been edited by whatever, 05-31-2004 12:06 AM

edge, Humans didn't have claws, so would not they have had a big disadvantage clinging over 150 days to floating debris, etc...

Genesis 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:Its talking about all flesh that moved upon the earth perished, they perished cause they moved not upon the waters, etc...7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.Its says in plain English that all that was "in" the dry land, died.7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah "only" {non the less) remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.Its talking about every living substance was destroyed upon the face of the ground, which were in agreement cause of the sediments that covered them, preserving your fossil record, in fact its this fossil record that agrees that every living substance was destroyed upon the face of the earth in the biblical deluge, however it doesn't mean every living substance that floated above the surface perished, etc...P.S. The sediments raining down upon the earth settled, and created a perfect setting for the seeds to grow on these floating mats of debris, kind of like growing plants in a hydroponic like environoment, which then reseeded the earth, food for the creatures, insects, that didn't perish on the surface of the earth to become the fossil record, and to reseed the earth, some insects likely survived as larvae, on the floating debris, etc...

sidelined, What makes you think they had not water to drink, it rained 40 days and nights, so the freshwater rose upward, plenty of freshwater to drink, once the 40 day deluge was over, the seeds would of germinated(cause of all the sediments minerals), food for the browsers, which in turn were food for the carnivorous creatures, etc...P.S. Lot of dead creatures floating, food for the carnivous creatures, through out the flood, the floating debris would of been food for the browsers, fish under the islands of debris, food for the otters, seals, insects slipping down under the debris, food for the platapus, etc...

Randy, I don't know much about the tasmanian tiger, but it said that it clings to its mothers teat while young(like its a marsupial), so they do seem to have claws to help cling, it has a tail to help it swim a bit, so it could swim to fed a bit, and climb back aboard the debris, etc...This message has been edited by whatever, 05-31-2004 01:10 AM

Randy, You forget it was summer in the southern hemisphere, but agree God destroyed all flesh that remained on the surface of the earth, and that with all the sediments erupting out of the earth, they were destroyed and became your fossil evidences. Your own verse is talking about the fowl, and the cattle, it never mentions the reptiles, but they too breath the air, but they wouldn't of remained on the surface of the earth(some insects survived as larvae)(the ones that remained on the surface perished as the sediments fossilized them too), some were not destroyed on the surface, snakes breathe air too, when you look in totality at the verses, its apparent only those that remained on the surface were totally destroyed, which brings one back to the hoofed creatures that couldn't of survived outside an ark, all perished on the surface of the earth, were talking massive islands of trees, mixed with grasses, herbs, debris, that floated upward, in a summer climate, in the southern hemisphere, was shelter for the creatures that could climb aboard, it was not like they didn't have enough to eat, and fresh water to drink, etc...P.S. When one realizes the word only can mean non the less Noah and them on the ark remained alive, when God is talking about the end of all flesh is come before him, he's talking about man and his wickeness, and that Noah found favor, so while he did destroy all flesh, not all perished, etc...This is my take on it all, if you want to believe that Noah could of carried all the creatures including the seals, whales, on the ark, makes more sense that only the creatures that remained on the surface perished that breathed through nostrils, etc...The ark sounded a bit like a cattle barge, with fowl, don't see any mention of creatures with flippers, seals, snakes, that too breathe though nostrils, etc...

Randy, kjv Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which "was upon" the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah [only (nevertheless)] remained [alive], and they that [were] with him in the ark.kjv Gen 7:23 And (853) every3605 living substance3351 was destroyed4229 which834 was upon5921 the face6440 of the ground,127 both man,4480, 120 and5704 cattle,929 and5704 the creeping things,7431 and5704 the fowl5775 of the heaven;8064 and they were destroyed4229 from4480 the earth:776 and Noah5146 only389 remained7604 alive, and they that834 were with854 him in the ark.8392H389

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Akin to H403; a particle of affirmation, surely; hence (by limitation) only: - also, in any wise, at least, but, certainly, even, howbeit, nevertheless, notwithstanding, only, save, surely of a surety, truly, verily, + wherefore, yet (but).NOTE: The hebrew root word for "only" is not an all exclusive word, it could mean "nevertheless" Noah and them on the ark survived, while the creatures on the surface perished, etc... Too me it is not including the creatures that were not "upon" the surface of the earth, like the creatures floating above the surface of the earth, you wanted another perspective of the biblical flood, though agree the creatures "upon" the surface of the earth perished, all living substances on the earths surface would of perished, this is all this verse is saying all the creatures that was "upon" the face of the earth perished, meaning if they were not "upon" the earth, they were floating above the surface of the earth, and not all perished(remember the olive leaf) not all living substances perished in the flood unless they remained "upon" the surface of the earth during the biblical deluge, etc...kjv Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, "in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month", the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.Note: It was the warmest time of the summer while the rains rained 40 days, in the southern hemisphere, etc...kjv Gen 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.kjv Gen 7:17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.kjv Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.NOTE: By the time winter season came to the southern hemisphere the waters were abated, etc...In the southern hemisphere some small birds might of survived on the floating debris, but in the northern hemisphere it was winter, all the glaciation, doubt much survived in the northern hemisphere, etc..This message has been edited by whatever, 05-31-2004 12:38 PM

Randy,
An olive branch qualifies as a living substance, because it floated above the face of the ground it was not destroyed, no difference in respect to the cattle, creeping things, birds, fowls of the heavens, etc... We all know that Noah and them on the ark survived the flood, given in the biblical text, the olive branch survived, is not the olive branch of the earth, how come it was not destroyed, could it be that it floated above the surface of the earth, and wasn't covered by the sediments that erupted out from the earth, etc...kjv Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which "was upon" the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah [only (nevertheless)] remained [alive], and they that [were] with him in the ark.P.S. The olive tree even though it was of the ground didn't perish cause it floated upon the waters, and wasn't upon the face of the ground, to be covered by the sediments erupting out from the mid-ocean ridges(Walt Browns hydroplate theory), and the fossil records attests that the fossils were buried by these sediments, etc...It is quite apparent to me, all living substances on the surface of the earth were destroyed, its what you call the fossil record and only those that floated on top of the waters surviving on debris, or the fish in the waters survived above the earth's surface, etc...I don't think your reading the bible in context, cause the olive branch is a living substance(it didn't perish), it survived because it floated, the grasses and the herbs survived in like manner too, so all living substances were not destroyed that floated, on the massive floating islands of debris that floated upward from the earth, that helped reseed the earth, Its no different than the mighty redwoods that are in evident in fossil coal graveyards all over the planet, but after the biblical deluge, they only grew again in Western North America, Noah didn't reseed these trees, its more proof that not all living substances perished, cause their seeds survived.I'm not a YEC but don't buy that the platapus migrated from Mt. Ararat, and don't believe the bible supports your contention that only those life substances on the ark survived, etc...I'm not a theologian, but when I read this verse, its only talking about the life substances on the surface of the earth, including those that breathed through nostrils during the biblical deluge, granted all the hoofed cattle perished in the deluge, cause how could they climb aboard the debris(they needed the ark), etc... Thats how I see it reading those verses, so guess I'm just going to agree to disagree with you, just don't see the bible agreeing with your reading, but thats just how I'm reading it all, etc...

Randy, The verse kjv Gen 7:23 is not making your great leap of faith that a living substance needs to have nostrils, etc...P.S. The verse in question is only referencing all living substances on the surface of the earth perished, if so then, those that were not on the surface of the earth didn't all perish. You have geophysical evidence of the living substances that perished upon the surface of the earth, its called the fossil record, and if you can not explain the absense of hoofed creatures in Australia, then you have evidence that they too perished in the biblical deluge, etc...

I don't see this verse in the same context as your seeing the verse, I see he destroyed all flesh upon the surface of the earth, all life substances, they were covered in sediments, etc... Your seeing that God destroyed all flesh, above the surface, which would include the fishes, walruses, whales, but they would of been above the surface of the earth, etc...The geophysical evidences support the biblical deluge, the fossil record, the lack of native hoofed creatures in Australia, though in the northern hemisphere you have all them glaciers that were formed in the 40 day deluge, it was a world wide catastrophy, you have the Grand Canyon, the Hudson Canyon, the Amazon Canyon, the Badlands, the massive fossil coal tree grave yards, the fossil record of the creatures that were destroyed on the earths surface, the pleistocene extinction, etc...If your being honest with ones self, the geophysical evidences support the biblical deluge, on a world wide stage, the amount of water in the oceans testify that more than enough water exists to of covered the entire earth, over 1/2 mile in water, if the earth was smoothed a bit, you have salt domes showing the oceans did cover the earth before God caused the continents to rise, the oceans to settle after the biblical deluge, but not until the earth was covered by waters as a garment, the waters covered the mountains, etc... kjv psalm 104:6-9.kjv Gen 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.kjv Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein [is] the breath of life, from under heaven; [and] every thing that [is] in the earth shall die.This verse says everything that is in the earth shall die, everything would include olive trees, but if they were floating they wouldn't of been in the earth, which is why they survived, didn't all perish, etc...Note: The fishes were not in the earth, but in the waters, etc...Trees that floated up out of the earth were not in the earth, but were in the waters, but everything that remained in the earth perished, was destroyed, so he did destroy all flesh but not all perished, etc...P.S. The kangaroo being a marsupial had claws, but they are extremely good swimmers, with that tail and their big feet, etc...If the bible says only those in the earth perished, so those that remained not in the earth didn't all perish, you have the evidence like in Australia, creatures not found anywhere else in the world, that agrees that all flesh was destroyed that was on the surface, but not all perished, because trees float, animals have claws, snakes swim, and it was summertime in Australia, for the 40 day deluge, plenty of fresh water to drink, etc... I agree that all flesh on the surface of the earth was destroyed, think you actually are in agreement that not all perished, because you have evidence for this, cause it agrees with the bible, that only those on the earth's surface all perished, etc...

randy, If you find some kangaroo fossils in the Mount Ararat area, or native hoofed creatures in Australia, that would interest me, but be it as it be, your biogeographical evidence simply supports my interpretation of the bible, and would welcome fossil evidence to change my opinion, that the platapus migrated from Turkey, but the evidence supports that only the creatures on the earths surface all perished, though all creatures were destroyed, but not all perished, etc...P.S. I'm not a theologian, so this might be a question to ask someone more versed in the bible, the hebrew interpretative meanings of some of the words your taking as being all inclusive, a simple word like "only" can change the entire meaning of the verses, if your taking it as a literal meaning, for those all inclusive words which could be non inclusive words from the same hebrew root word, or if your taking the verses out of context, like where it says all living substances on the surface perished, to not mean what it says, fish would be a living substance but it didn't perish cause it wasn't a creature upon the surface of the earth, but if it got buried in the sediments, it would of become a living substance in the earth and it would of perished too(becoming part of the fossil record), but they didn't all perish, etc...P.S. People used to tell me to check the hebrew/greek root word's and I like you didn't see the reason, but seeing how one word can change the entire meaning of the verse, make one appreciate the authorized kjv with the hebrew and greek concordances, etc...If you want to check out the hebrew/greek root words, here's a free download for the Authorized King James Version.Free download of the hebrew and greek concordances too!e-Sword: Free Bible Study for the PC | Downloads

randy, The bible wasn't man's interpretation of the biblical flood, it was God's Word's, so when it says all that breathed through their nostrils, it was talking of all the creatures on the dry land, that perished on the surface of the earth. It even says those that perished in the earth, etc... When it says all living substances, its including all living substances, not just those that breathe through nostrils, as the sediments compressed all living substances would of been destroyed in the earth, just as the bible said all that was in the dry land died, all flesh died that moved upon the earth, every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, etc... kjv genesis 7:21-23, as your sedimentary rocks formed, covering even the mountains, they would of destroyed all life substances, like them clams found on top of the mount Everest, more biogeographic evidence supporting the biblical deluge, etc...P.S. Moses was given the words of Genesis on Mt. Sinai, these are God's Words, the scribes didn't change even a dot or a (titel?) of these words, God himself has preserved them cause scripture says his Words will never pass away, though heaven and earth will pass away but his words will never pass away, its part of prophecy, in that its not of private interpretation, meaning man didn't give his private interpretation of the flood, etc...kjv Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.kjv 2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:kjv 2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.kjv 2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.P.S. Where is the delta of sediments from all the erosion of the Grand Canyon if it formed slowly over time, etc...If you want to understand salt domes, liquefaction, hydroplate theory kjv psalm 104:5-9, you might checkout Walt Browns site, salt domes covered by sediment were formed pre-flood, its believed when God caused the waters to be divided kjv genesis 1:7 above and below the firmament the bird flew within kjv genesis 1:20 and below the fimament it cause massive salt deposits all over the world, like whats seen in the Great Salt Lake salt deposits that formed after the biblical deluge, the massive water canopy above the open firament caused by waters evaporating leaving these massive salts behind, according to Walt Brown, the sediments erupting out from the earth from the fountains of the deep being opened kjv genesis 7:11, the flood sediments covered these salt deposits, the Grand Canyon was carved out by the forces of cavitation after the biblical flood, as the waters suddenly burst forming the Grand Canyon suddenly, like where are the delta sands if it formed slowly as your infering?, etc...Pleistocene extinction is simply more overwhelming evidence supporting the glacier happened suddenly, creatures found quick frozen, in the northern hemisphere, even some in the mountains of Venezuala, etc...Atlantisquest.com

randy, I guess you have your reasons for missing the part where it says IN the earth or THE FACE of the earth, etc... IN THE FACE The deepest wells ever drilled, they are finding fractured rocks and water (I mean water, over 7 miles into the earth), and still drilling, it will be interesting what they find as they continue to drill deeper still, and I hear those drilling super deep oil wells miles deep are finding a whole lot of juvenile waters too, meaning Walt talks of these wells, (its physical evidence), the Russian super deep well is geophysical evidence confirming the breaking up of all the fountains of the deep, kjv genesies 7:11, etc...