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Author Topic:   Wild Gorillas using Tools
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 31 of 42 (248321)
10-02-2005 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Coragyps
10-02-2005 7:02 PM


Re: Chimp Gender and Tools
Sure, they're thinking: one good shop vac, we could eat for days...
This message has been edited by Omnivorous, 10-02-2005 07:07 PM

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4022 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 32 of 42 (248331)
10-02-2005 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Coragyps
10-02-2005 7:02 PM


Re: Chimp Gender and Tools
Back to not-so-wild gorillas. Koko has no problems using her TV and VCR. I`m still trying to get the hang of where to point the remote. Too high. Too low. A little to the right.Bang the battery cover,etc.

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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 42 (248362)
10-02-2005 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
09-29-2005 10:53 PM


Tonight's Nature is on the subject.
It's has some great footage of Capuchin monkeys using tools and learning to use tools.
In Brazil, clever capuchin monkeys use heavy rocks to crack open nuts for food. NATURE's DEEP JUNGLE: THE BEAST WITHIN marks the first time the behavior has been captured on film. Tool use, which was previously thought to be a skill only of primates -- humans and chimps -- reminds us that human abilities arose long before the evolution of our species.
link to write up

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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 Message 37 by Omnivorous, posted 10-03-2005 9:23 AM jar has replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4022 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 34 of 42 (248366)
10-02-2005 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by jar
10-02-2005 9:26 PM


Re: Tonight's Nature is on the subject.
Tool use, which was previously thought to be a skill only of primates -- humans and chimps
Hi, Jar, wouldn`t you say the use by sea otters of stones balanced on their bodies to crack open shellfish, would be 'tool' use?
All these actions,percussion, fashioning and using sticks, car surfing,etc. seem to me to point to a degree of reasoning and remembering. And isn`t this what is said to elevate humans above the animal world?

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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 35 of 42 (248374)
10-02-2005 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Nighttrain
10-02-2005 9:55 PM


Re: Tonight's Nature is on the subject.
Yes, definitely. It's amazing to watch them.
There are also many sea birds that carry crabs and shellfish up then drop them on rocks to crack them open.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5191 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 36 of 42 (248377)
10-02-2005 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by RAZD
10-01-2005 11:27 PM


Re: Car Surfing
Now, if you hear one say "nevermore" ....
To Quote Quoth Quotes is Quool

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 37 of 42 (248456)
10-03-2005 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by jar
10-02-2005 9:26 PM


More on capuchin monkeys
They not only exhibit tool use, they show evidence of sharing and a sense of fairness similar to ours. More from the October/November "National Wildlife" magazine:
Sarah Brosnan had long marveled at the apparent generosity of the capuchin monkeys she studies at Yerkes National Primate Research Institute in Atlanta, where the animals live in two large and highly social colonies. If Brosnan left a bowl of food within reach of one capuchin but not another”separating them with a mesh partition”the first invariably shared by passing food through the divider.
As an anthropologist, Brosnan has a special interest in the roots of such behavior, specifically in mechanisms that encourage humans to cooperate when they receive no immediate benefit. Is the Golden Rule something we learn, or might it stem from an instinctual sense of fair play that we share with other primates?
At Yerkes, Brosnan designed an experiment to explore the question. First, she taught the monkeys a bartering game: She would hand one of them a small stone, then offer it a grape or a cucumber slice in trade. The capuchins eagerly bartered for either treat, though they clearly preferred the sweeter fare.
Next, Brosnan began giving one capuchin a grape, offering its partner a cucumber. The monkeys’ reaction to such unequal treatment could only be described as outrage, says Brosnan. “They’d literally throw their cucumber slices at me, something I’d never seen in all the years I worked with them.” The capuchins reacted even more negatively if they witnessed another receive the preferred treat for less work”if Brosnan handed their partner a grape, for example, without receiving a token exchange. In that situation, those offered cucumbers often threw away their stones or turned their backs on the scientist.
“People often turn down a reward because it’s not what they think is fair,” notes Brosnan. “Such self-defeating behavior may not seem rational, but our research suggests it traces to the kind of emotional sense of fairness that may promote the high level of cooperation needed in species that hunt or otherwise work closely together.”
This message has been edited by AdminJar, 10-03-2005 08:24 AM

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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 42 (248464)
10-03-2005 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Omnivorous
10-03-2005 9:23 AM


Re: More on capuchin monkeys
Thanks. I was aware of her studies there in Atlanta, and I've spent some time over at the Primate Center. You can find more info on her webpage.
The really exciting thing for me was seeing the videos from the wild. In the video, the monkeys had a stone that had obviously (based on the amount of wear) been used for many, many decades at the least. It was used as the anvil. The stones used to break the nuts were carried from a riverbed over a mile away, and left on the anvil to be jointly used. Some of the hammer stones weighed as much as the monkey itself.
The monkeys also exhibited several other examples of both intellegence and cooperation. When the nuts were first harvested they would tear open one small hole in the end and drink the juice from inside (much as we do with coconuts). To determine which were ripe, the monkeys would tap on the nut and listen to the sound. Only ripe nuts were selected.
After they drank the juice they did not immediately try to crack the nut open. Instead they would remove all of the husk and set it aside and let it dry. Only dried, aged nuts were taken to the anvil. Often one monkey would help by placing the nut in a recess on the anvil while another used the stone as a hammer.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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 Message 37 by Omnivorous, posted 10-03-2005 9:23 AM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 39 of 42 (248473)
10-03-2005 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by jar
10-03-2005 9:42 AM


Re: More on capuchin monkeys
Thank you, jar, for the details and the link. My cable TV is kaput at present, and I couldn't check out the Nature show last night.
You probably already know about the additional work done on the capuchins with regard to economic behavior, esp. their attachment (as fierce as ours) to "loss aversion" behavior. If not, and for those who aren't, check out this link:
Spend Like a Monkey

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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 40 of 42 (248477)
10-03-2005 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Omnivorous
10-03-2005 10:04 AM


Re: More on capuchin monkeys
Yes. Sarah Brosnan also ran similar studies the Chimps and found that they too reflect much the same variety of reactions as do humans. You can read her report from last year here.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 41 of 42 (249026)
10-05-2005 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
09-30-2005 8:24 PM


Re: Bird tool use.
Jar writes:
I had a 70 mile each way commute, almost all straight interstate, I-95. I got to see many interesting things.
Grackles would run into the lane and drop food, usually nuts but also shellfish. Then they'd run back to the shoulder and face traffic. They never seemed to go any further than necessary.
The Red Wing Blackbirds dropped stuff in front of traffic, the swooped down to get the bounty. Then they'd run off to the side with it.
I have a domesticated bird...a conure. When I put a twist tie on her cage to lock her in, she studied what I was doing several times and then abruptly untwisted the tie one day.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 42 of 42 (253141)
10-19-2005 5:39 PM


New update
from
Scientists Study Gorilla Who Uses Tools (CNN News Story)
An infant gorilla in a Congo sanctuary is smashing palm nuts between two rocks to extract oil, surprising and intriguing scientists who say they have much to learn about what gorillas can do - and about what that says about evolution.
It had been thought that the premeditated use of stones and sticks to accomplish a task like cracking nuts was restricted to humans and the smaller, more agile chimpanzees. Then in late September, keepers at a Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund International sanctuary in this eastern Congo city saw 2 1/2-year-old female gorilla Itebero smashing palm nuts between rocks in the "hammer and anvil" technique, considered among the most complex tool use behaviors.
In an e-mail message Monday from the Republic of Congo's Nouabale-Ndoki National Park, Breuer said that in 10 years of observation, his team had seen only two instances of tool use among gorillas - in one a stick was used to test the depth of a pond and in another a small tree trunk was used for support and as a bridge.
Breuer said it was difficult to compare the behaviors his team had seen in the wild with the more complex behavior exhibited by Itebero, who had had contact with humans. But Breuer said Itebero's action "clearly shows that gorillas have the capability to use sophisticated tools even if they do not - or rarely - do this."
"Very often the use of tools is triggered by certain needs and it seems that gorillas have only little needs to use tools in the wild," Breuer said.
More for the mill.
Enjoy.

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