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Author Topic:   Atheism on the Rise
Stagamancer
Member (Idle past 4945 days)
Posts: 174
From: Oregon
Joined: 12-28-2008


Message 8 of 76 (506554)
04-27-2009 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Theodoric
04-27-2009 1:23 PM


Re: RAmen
Taz writes:
To the christians, however, it's buying a ticket to heaven... or buying a ticket out of hell, nothing more.
Theodoric writes:
If I were a christian, I would probably be doing it to secure myself preferential seating in some sort of post life paradise. As an atheist I do it because I know it will improve my community, which will in turn improve my life.
This may be off topic, and I usually don't defend christians, but this seems to be a pretty simple view on christian charity. I think claiming that christians only do nice things to secure a place in heaven is just as ignorant and claiming that all atheists are amoral/immoral. Having worked with a few christian charities in my time I can assure you that there are many christians out there that are just as interested in bettering their community as you, and it has nothing to do with their place in the afterlife. It's also important to mention that most protestant christians don't believe that good deeds will get them into heaven, only a belief in Christ, so they really have no more to gain from doing charity (post-mortem) than an atheist.
That said, I think all people should do more for their fellow humans, I know I should. And honestly, what is more important, helping others, or your reasons for doing it?

We have many intuitions in our life and the point is that many of these intuitions are wrong. The question is, are we going to test those intuitions?
-Dan Ariely

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Theodoric, posted 04-27-2009 1:23 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Taz, posted 04-27-2009 10:09 PM Stagamancer has replied

  
Stagamancer
Member (Idle past 4945 days)
Posts: 174
From: Oregon
Joined: 12-28-2008


Message 12 of 76 (506615)
04-28-2009 2:12 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Taz
04-27-2009 10:09 PM


Re: RAmen
Every atheist and agnostic has been asked the following question in one form or another: if you don't believe in god how can you have any moral?
But the fact that they can't even imagine morality and good deeds without the fear of a vengeful god should be clue enough of what they believe deep down.
Sure that's true for SOME christians. Just as it's true that SOME atheist don't give a good goddamn about their fellow human beings. My point was that you were making blanket statements about christian charity that are just as ignorant as a christian who can't imaging morality without hell.
So do some christians do charity because they fear hell (either consciously or subconsciously)? Yes. But not all.
Next time, you should ask them why they do what they do and think about the meanings behind their answers.
I have, and I have found exceptions to what you claim. I'd also like to point out that many atheists/agnostics have taken umbrage on this very site when theists think they know better the underlying reasons for why they do things. (see the Are We Prisoners of Sin thread)
Just as there are christians that do not take the bible literally and do accept science, including evolution, there are christians who really do want to make their communities better places, because they want to be christ-like, not because they fear damnation.

We have many intuitions in our life and the point is that many of these intuitions are wrong. The question is, are we going to test those intuitions?
-Dan Ariely

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Taz, posted 04-27-2009 10:09 PM Taz has not replied

  
Stagamancer
Member (Idle past 4945 days)
Posts: 174
From: Oregon
Joined: 12-28-2008


Message 14 of 76 (506617)
04-28-2009 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by ICANT
04-28-2009 2:13 AM


Re: RAmen
I can assure you that no born again child of God has ever asked anyone that question.
That's a really bold statement. You can ASSURE Taz of this? Do you guys all have a meeting to make sure?

We have many intuitions in our life and the point is that many of these intuitions are wrong. The question is, are we going to test those intuitions?
-Dan Ariely

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by ICANT, posted 04-28-2009 2:13 AM ICANT has not replied

  
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