You Guys Need to Communicate! (thoughts from an ex evangelical Christian)

I'm not following... And, yet, many people (apparently, Schraf included) spent their second grade years (and first grade and fifth grade and...) being indoctrinated into a particular religion and discouraged from asking uncomfortable questions.Children around this age are particularly vulnerable to brainwashing and are more willing to accept things on authority (which is why they also believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus BTW) so I do not understand your contention WRT Schraf bringing up second grade CCD as an example of brainwashing.

Most of the time, no it does not. I do appreciate and understand and even mostly agree your point, but I don't think that Schraf was accusing the RCC wholesale of the strict brainwashing you addressed when you said this: She was providing evidence (anecdotal tho it may be) that children can be and are brainwashed by many different religious sects (or particular groups or people within those sects, if you prefer), the RCC included, not just the fundies who isolate their kids from the world.It may not always stick, but, as she pointed out, it can be a very painful process to unstick it.

So, according to this doctrine (please correct me if I misunderstood), only someone who studied the words of Jesus, understood them and then rejected them would go to hell? Someone who knew them to be "true" at one point "knowingly and deliberately rejected" them?Someone like Gandhi (presumably...I do not know how much he knew of or understood the Gospels) knew that there was a Jesus that Christians worshipped. He probably even knew that many Christians believed that belief in Jesus was required to get to heaven. However, he would go to heaven by his good works alone.Would he not be guilty for not investigating this "truth" even though he knew about it?What about someone like me who has read and understood the Gospels (on an intelectual level, at least) but has never felt any of it to be true. Can I "knowingly and deliberately" reject something I never accepted in the first place.I know how most of the fundamentalists would answer ("you are rejecting God by hardening your heart against Him" or some such), but how does the doctrine of ignorance address this?

Thank you, Jar.If I do happen to come face to face with Jesus I will, after asking him some really pointed questions, surely go willingly with him.Until then, however, I will embrace reality as I see it

Thank you for your answers, ana.Now the only problem I see here deals with something I asked several posts back (or maybe it was in the "morality and society" thread..I don't remember) and what you just stated. How do you define "evil?" Does one reject God by sinning (many or most Christians define evil through sin)? Or is it purely by going against what your God-given conscience tells you is wrong or "evil?"

Thanks for that, truthlover. I suspected Gandhi had studied Christianity, but not having read as extensively about him as I should, I could not be sure. This is essentially what ana said.My conscience, however, tells me that there is no God and that I am not doing evil by being a homosexual (among other things).Many Christians would tell me that my conscience is wrong, but if we are saved by following our conscience (i.e. doing what we feel is right), then if we have the "wrong" conscience what is one to do?