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Author Topic:   What is the mechanism that prevents microevolution to become macroevolution?
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 6022 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 34 of 301 (344920)
08-29-2006 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by anglagard
08-29-2006 8:42 PM


Re: Faith Logic
Faith shouts:
Yes, of course. THAT'S WHAT SPECIATION DOES, IT SEVERELY REDUCES GENETIC DIVERSITY.
So the act of speciation, which creates more species, means less genetic diversity. Then according to such logic, an infinite amount of species would have the least genetic diversity, while one species would have the most genetic diversity. Does that also mean that an infinite amount of numbers would have the least numerical diversity, while one number has the most numerical diversity?
You ask if speciation means less genetic diversity. I have two answers, not necessarily and probably. You have to keep the proper frame of reference.
We start with a specific amount of genetic material within a population; As the population speciates, the genetic information gets divided up amongst the various isolated populations. Of course there's a lot of redundancy; that's why speciation is normally a slow process. Let's suppose we have a species that possesses 30,000 genes. Two populations form from this species that become geographically isolated. Originally, there's a lot of genetic redundancy (or overlap). So let's suppose that of the original 30,000 genes, all the alleles are present for 29,990 genes. But for a small number of genes (10 in this case) there is geographic isolation, no overlap between populations. This occurs purely by chance, remember. So, is there a reduction of genetic diversity? Not really, the sum population still possesses the full diversity of alleles among its 30,000 genes. However there has been a reduction of genetic diversity as seen in each population.
Now, time adds up; This process repeats itself, until specific alleles become so poorly represented in a suficiently small population that they are in danger of being lost, should that population cease to be. In fact this is what happens, resulting in a true loss of genetic
diversity, both from the over-arching population view and as seen on the small population or individual level..
An infinte amount of species (as you brought up) would not necessarily be equated with a loss of diversity, but it likely would because of the afore-mentioned factors..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by anglagard, posted 08-29-2006 8:42 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by anglagard, posted 08-30-2006 8:07 AM mjfloresta has replied
 Message 39 by Modulous, posted 08-30-2006 12:29 PM mjfloresta has not replied

mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 6022 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 37 of 301 (345023)
08-30-2006 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by anglagard
08-30-2006 8:07 AM


Re: Faith Logic
What does "common sense" have to do with anything? To you common sense is clearly something different than to me.
I gave you the explanation of speciation that almost every biologist would agree with. How that beomes "irrational fanaticism" i'm not too sure.
But tell me more about this "common sense" criteria...How does it work? I mean, when I observe that there exist many separate populations of say, finche, common sense doesn't really tell me much about the underlying genetic situation. I have to study it, to find out what's really going on. Common sense doesn't tell me anything.
The argument boils down to stating the subset of genes in one species is greater than the set of all genes of all species, which is obvously false by definition.
A clear mis-representation of what I said. How is it usually phrased here? A Strawman?
We're talking about a loss of genetic diversity - ie genetic information. Every subsequent speciation leads to less genetic information than before.
Your model assumes no mutation can ever exist, "good," "bad," or otherwise.
No, it does not; My model does not consider mutations to be a source of information great enough to overcome the loss of information due to speciation. Never does it assume the non-existence of mutations (good, bad, or neutral). This means: IF mutations increase genetic information/diversity, they have never been demonstrated (nor do any biologist hold to such a theory, that I know of) to overcome the loss caused by speciation. The Net Change then is negative.
Additionally, if humans and chimps share 98% of the genetic code, where did the other 2% come from? Bacterial devolution? Degeneration from the fall? Subsets being greater than sets?
I'm not sure how this fits in..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by anglagard, posted 08-30-2006 8:07 AM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Equinox, posted 08-30-2006 1:30 PM mjfloresta has not replied
 Message 43 by anglagard, posted 08-30-2006 2:16 PM mjfloresta has not replied
 Message 47 by Quetzal, posted 08-30-2006 4:04 PM mjfloresta has not replied

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