explaining common ancestry

Show us where an "evolutionist" thinks that humans and primates are the same species. This is something you (or a dishonest or stupid (or both) source you have used) has made up. It is false. Wrong. Bad, bad, naughty to repeat. Not Christian to lie. So stop it.I don't think you have managed a single post (almost not even a single paragraph) that doesn't have at least one huge clanger of an error. We really should be keeping count. I'm almost afraid that you might actualy read one of these posts and get something right and spoil the fun. (Nah, never. )

If evolutionists claim that primates and humans aren't the same species, then how can we be descendants of another species? Since the dictionary has already defined a species as one who is capabale of exchanging genes with each other and interbreeding, then how can primates and humans exchange genes with each other if we can't interbreed? And if we can't do that, then again, how can we be descendants of primates? it's impossible because genes are passed along to their offspring through mating and breeding. So how do you explain humans descending from primates?This message has been edited by Carico, 12-12-2005 11:22 PM

let's try this again.my brother and i have an ancestor in common: our father (and our mother).my cousins and i have an ancestor in common: our grandfather (and grandmother).that "common" bit comes from the fact that we SHARE that ancestor. please note this comes in well before we get to anything even reasonably questionable evolution-wise. of COURSE the common ancestor of my brother and me is my father. my brother and i share a lot of features. we have similar eyes, similar hair, similar lips. but my jaw is different than his, and his nose is different than mine. but if you put our baby pictures next to each other, we look almost identical.now, our common ancestor should have all of those features combined, right? well, some of it comes from the mother, and HER side of the family too. so the features are distributed differently between us.me + my brother ≠ my father.rather,my father + my mother = my brother, me.we each have features of of our ancestors, but not all of our features are present in any ONE ancestor -- that's called sexual reproduction. you simply have it backwards.so what we should expect to see in a common ancestor between modern apes and modern humans is not something that has ape features and human features. we should expect to see something with the features that are common to both apes and humans, but is niether modern ape, nore modern human. strawman. complete and utter strawman. i challenge you to find a single reputable source that says this. we don't even claim that h. sapiens and h. neanderthalensis are the same species (as creationists are so fond of doing). we say that they share a common ancestor -- just like i share a common ancestor with my cousin, 12 times removed.there are many species of primates. included in that group are many species of apes, and few species of human (all but one extinct). "primate" is an ORDER, that includes monkeys, apes, and humans. somewhere way down the ranks there is the family of hominids, which includes apes and humans. below that are the genii gorilla, pan (chimps) and homo (humans). common to all tetrapods. you forgot "bilateral external symmetry" common to all mammals. how would they be descended from each other? and that's huge jump in logic, btw. they share an ancestor. you've been suggested a better analogy of why successive modifaction of traits leads to difficulties in breeding:chihuahuas and great danes.those actually ARE the same species, but don't interbreed. except for those that don't.i've presented to you above two varieties of a species that cannot breed, and i've presented you with a long list of hybrid animals, resulting from breeding across the species line. lions and tigers will interbreed given the opportunity.

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"speciation." no, you're not listening. we aren't descendants of primates, we ARE primates.and if i can't exhange genes with my brother, how can we both be descended from my father?

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And we are all capable of interbreeding with our ancestors (regardless of whether or not we want to)...except a primate. OUR ANCESTORS ARE SIMPLY THOSE WHO CREATED US THROUGH MATING AND BREEDING. And since there is a natural sperm barrier that renders it impossible for primates and humans to interbreed, then again, we cannot possibly be the descendants of primates. What part of that is so hard for you to understand?There are many, many variable traits WITHIN EACH SPECIES. And since humans and primates are not the same species, then what is your point about you looking different or like your siblings?Again, you are capable of breeding with your mother (but hopefully you don't want to), so you are capable of exchanging genes with her. So again, what does this have to do with animals with which humans are not capable of exchanging genes?Again, cats and dogs have more traits in common than humans and primates but they still cannot breed with each other. So why do you claim humans and primates are intermingled but do not do so with cats and dogs?Chihuahuas and Great Danes are still dogs. They did not come from cats even though they share many characteristics in common.Again, any animal will breed with another animal WITH WHOM IT IS CAPABLE OF BREEDING. PRIMATES AND HUMANS ARE NOT CAPABLE OF INTERBREEDING.That again is elementary.

Where is it? I've posted a reference to how human sperm can penetrate gibbon ova. Where is this barrier?A reference from the scientific literature would be nice. That is not even in evidence apart you your assertion that it's "impossible." You don't know that, you just badly want it to be so. I don't know whether chimps and humans can interbreed, and I don't care at all whether they can or not: it's possible we've diverged too far. Kind of like Chihuahuas and Great Danes.This message has been edited by Coragyps, 12-12-2005 11:44 PM

Are you saying that humans and primates can produce offspring together? Where is the proof for this? You are also suggesting bestiality, (which I said much earlier and was severly chastized for even insinuating it)but now you are.Actually it's you who badly wants humans to come from apes so you can contradict God's word. Otherwise, why do you contradict God's word when reality shows that humans breed humans and apes breed apes?

Absolutely untrue. How many bones does a human have? A chimp?206 each.How many breeds of dogs have retractable claws? Of cats?Zero and all.How much do human and chimp cytochrome c differ?Not at all - they're identical.How many breeds of dogs have pupils that go to slits in the sunlight? Of cats?None. All.Don't get me started: I've got to get to bed.

Read my post: there is no proof that I know of either way, yes or no. This means that I can't say "CAN TOO!!!" but it also means that you can't talk of a "sperm barrier" UNLESS YOU CAN FURNISH SCIENTIFIC REFERENCES TO BACK IT UP!!!

And how many billions more nuerons are there in the human brain compared to the brain of a chimp? Can chimps talk, walk on 2 legs, form complex analyses, build bridges, or contemplate God? yet chimps and cats have 2 eyes, 2 ears, a nose, a mouth, hair all over their bodies, mammary glands and walk on 4 legs. Therefore, chimps and cats have much more in common than chimps and humans. But this is still a moot point because cats & apes or cats and humans or apes and humans still cannot interbreed, regardless of how many traits they have in common.

All this suggestion of humans and animals intermingling still doesn't explain how the first primate was created. So since it got here somehow, then why not say that the first human got here in the same way the first primate got here? By the miraculous creation of God. But no. Instead, the miracle of the human being is reduced to coming from the wombs of primates yet the primate was miraculously created. This shows gross disrespect for human beings and elevates the primate to a miraculous creation, even though humans can form complex analyses, build elaborate structures, contemplate the purpose of our lives, and God, and outsmart animals, evolutionists say the primate, not the human came from a miraculous source. Because the fact of the matter is that the first primate came from somewhere other than previous ancestors. So why this reversal of God's plan as stated in the bible? The degree that evolutionists want to contradict God;'s plan is enormous. It requires one to believe that new genes were passed along through millions of years of mutation that happened over and over and over and over and over again all BY ACCIDDENT (which is an oxymoron), it suggests that animals and humans can interbreed when there is no evidence that any of this is possible. So again, why do this?

None more billions. Human brains are proportionally larger in size, but not "billions of neurons" larger. Why? Chimpanzees walk, communicate, build tools and use them, and apparently, are too smart to have to contemplate God. Sounds like they have more in common with humans than you're prepared to admit. No, they can't now interbreed. But I asked you a question, once, that you couldn't answer. Do you remember it? Are you prepared to answer, yet?

Did you or did you not say you had studied evolution for 30 years?I may misremember and you didn't say such a thing; if you did you badly misunderstand the concept of studying something or you are a liar. This is made clear by your posts.Care to tell me which it is? Anyone with 10 hours of actual study of the evolutionary explanation would not even ask this question.You have had it answered a couple of dozen times. It appears that you're not going to get it.

This is called "moving the goalposts". We are not, as yet discussing the first primate. We are discussing the evolution of humans from earlier primates. (btw, since I think you won't know humans are, in fact, primates). When we have finished with that topic then we move onto other things. This is how one discusses complex issues in an organized fashion. What many Christians believe (even the majority) is that you blaspheme . You suggest that you can tell God how He will choose to form the life on this planet. You claim to understand God's plan when He has left clear evidence as to how he performed his miricles and gave humans the power to reason to read His evidence. The God you believe in is a little god; a parlour magician not the grand architect of the universe that other believe in. Another paragraph loaded with falsehoods. You have already been told mutations DO happen "over and over" again.What someone who understands a smidggen about the evolutionary explanation knows is that the passing along is NOT by accident at all.You have also been told several times that NO ONE SAID ANIMALS AND HUMANS CAN INTERBREED OR EVER COULD. You seem to be able to type grammatically correct English. You seem to have trouble reading it.Is there anyway we can help you? Use words of less than 3 syllables?

well, one, i am a primate. you are a primate. everyone on this board is primate. we are all capable of breeding with primates.although, i'm finding it quite difficult to breed with my great-great-grandmother. why do you suppose that is? the part where you're not capable of understanding that we ARE primates. all human features are primate features. period. humans are primates. as for features in common with GREAT APES and humans, i'm sure i could find you a ton. i didn't claim that human and apes intermingled. i claimed that after a certain point their ancestry matches: one species gave rise to apes, as well as humans. this species was a primate, but neither a modern ape nor a modern human. if a cat gave birth to a dog it would strongly falsify evolution. features are not borrowed laterally, ever. one species of animal that exists today does not ever give birth to a member of another already existing species.and you missed the point: chihuahuas and great danes are the same species: canis familiaris. they are not capable of breeding, thought for strictly practical reasons. lions and tigers are capable of interbreeding across the species line. should we classify them as the same species?i provided you with a list of about two dozen inter-species hybrids. most do not occur in the wild, even though it seems to be possible. why do you suppose this is?

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