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Author Topic:   Comparisons of Neandertal mtDNA with modern humans and modern chimpanzees
sfs
Member (Idle past 2564 days)
Posts: 464
From: Cambridge, MA USA
Joined: 08-27-2003


Message 3 of 80 (104739)
05-02-2004 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Sylas
05-01-2004 1:48 PM


This is not a direct plot of the data set, since I do not have that available. Instead, I plotted normal curves based on the quoted mean and standard deviation for each class of comparison. Because there are two species of chimpanzee, the Chimp-Chimp comparison has a wide spread of values.
Very nice plot. The chimp-chimp comparison is a little misleading, however. Since they lumped two species into a single value (an odd thing to have done), the chimp-chimp comparisons won't produce anything like a single normal curve; the distrbution should have two peaks, one around 75 (for chimp-bonobo comparisons) and the other a broad peak centered around 20 or so (for within-species comparisons).
(Note that the human-Neandertal difference is smaller than the differences between chimp subspecies, so it's not obvious just from the genetic distances that humans and Neandertals were different species.)
Steve

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sfs
Member (Idle past 2564 days)
Posts: 464
From: Cambridge, MA USA
Joined: 08-27-2003


Message 7 of 80 (104799)
05-02-2004 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Sylas
05-02-2004 9:36 PM


Re: comparison with chimpazee diversity
There is no indication of the difference between bonobos and any subspecies of common chimpanzee, but this would certainly be greater than the other differences plotted.
They do give the difference between bonobos and all chimps (75.7).
There is no plot of the diversity within humans, which is unfortunate. I expect it would be less than the diversity within any chimpanzee subspecies.
Probably so -- human mtDNA diversity has been measured to be quite low compared to chimp. For nuclear diversity, humans are lower than central chimps (~factor of 2), higher than western chimps.
They would certainly have been interfertile with each other
Not necessarily. A handful of key mutations may make hybridization difficult or impossible. Raw genetic distance can't tell you whether they've occurred or not. (Of course, small distance does make it less likely, but not certain.)

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 Message 6 by Sylas, posted 05-02-2004 9:36 PM Sylas has replied

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sfs
Member (Idle past 2564 days)
Posts: 464
From: Cambridge, MA USA
Joined: 08-27-2003


Message 29 of 80 (105029)
05-03-2004 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Sylas
05-02-2004 11:03 PM


Re: comparison with chimpazee diversity
No; that was the HVRII. There was no difference given for the HVRI, which was the subject of my second plot.
Sorry, I wasn't paying attention. (Maybe I shouldn't have had a Buffy episode on in another window.)
I'm collecting a set of references for this. Can you give a cite where I could track down more on these, please? Does mtDNA diversity give any different result to nuclear DNA diversity?
Yu N, Jensen-Seaman MI, Chemnick L, Kidd JR, Deinard AS, Ryder O, Kidd KK, Li WH. Low nucleotide diversity in chimpanzees and bonobos.
Genetics. 2003 Aug;164(4):1511-8.
There's also data from the chimp genome effort on western and central chimps -- it's the actual source I was using, but it hasn't been published yet. It will be available Real Soon Now.

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sfs
Member (Idle past 2564 days)
Posts: 464
From: Cambridge, MA USA
Joined: 08-27-2003


Message 49 of 80 (105594)
05-05-2004 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Loudmouth
05-05-2004 2:02 PM


Re: Is the data reliable? Yes and No.
I seem to remember that the mutation rate for Numt is higher than mitDNA, so this could pose a huge problem.
I would find this very surprising. Mitochondria have much higher mutation rates than nuclei do -- their DNA polymerase lacks proofreading capability that the nuclear polymerases have.

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