Spirituality

Ok..."I don't consider myself liberal or conservative, I think I fall somewhere in between the two. Like, I enjoy smoking pot, but only while watching FoxNews."Hows that?------------------------------I think "soul" and "spirit" are basically describing consciousness and our (humans) unique ability to be aware of our consciousness.Where "spirit/spiritual" describe consciousness, and "soul" is describing how we reflect on it.Using the definitions that you provided:

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The soul may be defined as the ultimate internal principle by which we think, feel, and will, and by which our bodies are animated.

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Seems to describe our consciousness. Our ability to think, feel and will is our conscious thoughts.While...

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"spirit" is used (with the adjective "spiritual") to denote all that belongs to our higher life of reason, art, morality, and religion as contrasted with the life of mere sense-perception and passion.

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Seems to describe our subjective awareness to our existance.It seems like "soul" and "spirit" are a primitive ways of describing consciousness and our subjective awareness of it.- Oni

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If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little.
~George Carlin

Thanks. I'm sure you, they, do. If that joke goes over well, and it doesn't sometimes because it goes over peoples head often, I usually follow up with:"Yea, and if was ever going to have sex with a man - (pause) - it would be with Ann Coulter."(I've actually received hate-mail for that additional tag. Ann Coulter supporters who've actually said "pot is cool but comparing Ann to a man is going a bit too far." ) I try this approach often but I also play in the south more often than the north and, no offense to those in the south, but they don't usually get the dichotomies. I blame the "Cable Guy" for dumbing them down. Subjectively, yes. There is more that a person will add to it. But objectively, consciousness is the only thing that we are aware of that has all of these qualities.My definitions would reflect, IMO, a pre-religion outlook on what we now identify with "soul" and "spirituality."- Oni

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If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little.
~George Carlin

Hi Jaywill, To say this to someone requires you to have realized that for yourself as well, does it not?So why hold the opinion that your beliefs are right, without considering that they may equally be completely wrong, since they are just your subjective beliefs? But how can this be truth when it is part of a faith based belief?It's contradictory, to say the least. How can you assure us of that when it is a faith based belief?You have convinced yourself and now are trying to persuade others using what convinced you, don't you see how irrelevant your opinons of the Bible are, and how condescending it makes you look?You're basically telling Stile that he has no idea how to run his life properly and that you know better than him whats right for him. Why? Because you accepted the stories in one particular book? Because you claim some connection with an unknown entity? And he's telling you that your wrong, now what?What makes you so confident? You convinced yourself that it's true. Guess what? So has every other person in a religion dating back to the first religions, what makes you different? Fine, lets say you're right. But what makes the "Christian" god the right one? Why not any other god? What would be the difference? Do you pray to other gods as well? What do you have to lose in doing so? Let me ask you this, what if the person has tried all their lives to talk to god and vice versa, but never experience a thing, nothing at all. Not a voice, not an inner feeling, not anything spiritual, not anything metaphysical or supernatural...nothing, just dead silence. What then? - What do you do when you spend your life trying to experience god but nothing happens?- Oni

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If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little.
~George Carlin

Right, but you could still be wrong about this. The point is that what one feels is right has no bearing on what other people might feel is right for them. The outcome, (being spiritual), is the only acheivable goal that is common. The means by which one chooses to get there is completely up to the individual. Neither way is the right way for everyone. Each individual finds their own journey to spirituality in their life experiences.Yours happens to be through your belief in God and Christ, other people choose their own path. I've done plenty of people wrong, but I don't consider myself a "sinner" in the biblical sense, nor do I accept that the term "sinner" or "sin" defines our actions.The word is derived from religion and as such carries with it a theological definition that does have any meaning to atheists. That's not to say that atheists don't consider their actions wrong, like I said I have done plenty of people wrong and have felt bad for it (and regreted it), but there's no reason to attach a biblical definition to my actions. It's well enough just knowing that you did wrong, regret your actions and harm you may have caused and learned from the experiences. Yes, and an example of that is what you are doing with, Stile. You are being strict with him and his ideology, yet feel that your belief has granted you mercy.The point is that we usually judge others by our own standards. We are all guilty of this, you as well as shown by your posts. But if we stop to consider that the individual you are talking to feels that they have spirituality in their lives, in the same way as you feel you have it in your life, then there is no reason to harp on the means by which we got there, it's well enough that we are both there. I grant you the same right. (Catholic Scientist, insert gay joke here) How can the Bible say anything? Those are words written by men and interpreted by you. But Bible stuff is too off-topic so I won't comment on the scripture quotes. And I think I shouldn't, now what? I don't consider "sin" real. This is a religious belief that man is sinful, I'm not religious therefore I don't carry any guilt outside of myself and my own mind. I reflect on the wrong that I did and work on being a better person when interacting with other humans.You feel you are without sin and so do I. We reached the same goal with different paths. That is the only thing that matters. I don't care nor do I judge how you got there, you should not care nor judge how I got there either. If you do, then your only point is to confirm your belief to yourself, and you don't actually care that people have found inner peace - you just want to be right. I don't. I'm glad you found inner peace, if Stile and I are telling you we have as well, then you should be happy for us, also. Everyone in the world? Have you asked them?How can you say this with any certainty? The point was that even though the person never "spoke" to god, or "felt the holy spirit," they were still able to find spirituality and balance in their lives.So, perhaps, if there is a god, he has different ways in which one can acheive spirituality and harmony. Your way works for you, my way works for me, Stiles' works for him, and in the end we are all better people because of it. Doesn't that seem good enough?- Oni

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If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little.
~George Carlin

I think you missed the point of me stating that you could still be wrong. If we go back to the origin of why I said that you'll find the context in which it was meant. That's when I said you could still be wrong, as YOU told Stile that some people are unwilling to believe certain things. My comment was to show you have your reasoning was hypocritical. It could be entirely fallacious as compared to what, though?In my comment I allow for the individual to decide whats best for him/her, which includes your way as well. If that is wrong then it's wrong because you feel there is a single right way. And that would be entirely fallacious because you have no evidence to support it beyond your personal faith in scriptures. Jaywill, I think you are focusing too much on winning the debate and not so much on the words and their meaning.You are taking the "you could be mistaken" thing way out of context. My opinion, as it has worked for me and other individuals who have given testimony as well, is that everyone is free to make up their own path to spirituality. That includes your way, and any other way people see fit. Could I be wrong, yes. But wrong as compared to what? That not everyone is free to choose their path and that there is one right way? And who decides that "one right way?"Note: I am not saying that any of this is true either. Spirituality itself could be a completely false concept. Fine, but how is it wrong? I understand that you disagree with it, I knew that when I said it, but why do you disagree with it?Do you feel there is one right way, the way you have chosen to find spirituality, and every other way is wrong? It is arbitrary. It has no meaning beyond what the indiviidual gives it and accepts it to be. In other words, I can feel good about doing something bad, and vice versa.Like I said, I reflect on it and ascribe to it what I feel it was, whether good or bad, or neutral. I don't personally need a book or a belief in god to tell me what is good and bad. If you tell me that you feel you have received mercy then I believe you. There is no need to argue a posiiton that I already conceded on. That's the whole point of what I'm trying to say to you. Each individual, in my opinion, has the right to choose for him/herself their path to mercy/spirituality/etc.Note: I am not saying that any of this is true either. Spirituality itself could be a completely false concept. Note: I am not saying that any of this is true either. Spirituality itself could be a completely false concept.There is nothing in what I'm saying that is pointing to a "truth." Maybe they are not equal, but then YOU would have to show me why they are not equal, and that would require you to define ONE SINGLE TRUTH, which you cannot do.So tenetively, all paths can lead to spirituality. And the fact that people are telling you they are spiritual and achevied it through a different path than you should be evidence that it is possible.Unless you are saying that you don't believe people when they tell you they have acheived spirituality, at that point it's your problem as to why you don't believe them. Jaywill, this thread and our discussion is not "how one gets to know Christ," it's about spirituality, which no one has a single definition for. It means different things to different people. Your way is through Christ, fine, I accept it. But, stop preaching to me about how to "find" Christ, I don't care to do so. I am content and quite happy with my definition of spirituality.- Oni

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If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little.
~George Carlin