Spirituality

nice topic bluejay,the apostle Paul had alot to say about what true spirituality is. He explained the difference between a physical man, that is, a person who follows the impulses of the flesh, and a spiritual man, a person who cherishes spiritual things
He also showed that Jesus was a living example of a spiritual person and said to be spiritual ourselves we must have "the mind of Christ" 1Corinthians 2:14-16The qualities that Jesus possessed were what really marked him as a spiritual person. Galatians 5:22 tells us that the fruitage of the spirit is "love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control." These are real qualities that many people possess to a certain degree. The degree that we display such qualities will show the degree of our spirituality.so basically, a spiritual person is one who is guided by Gods spirit and acts in accord with the fruitage of that spirit. Everyone is capable of it because we are made in Gods image and we all possess the ability to display his qualities in ourselves if we chose.And just to add to that, its not always easy becuase we have a battle with our physical person.... if we allow the physical person to dominate us, then the spiritual person will be stifled. But if we stifle the physical person, then the spiritual one can shine through.Easier said then done of course. lol

Ah yes your right, that does sound like a circular definition...rereading it I should have said'a spiritual person is one who cherishes the things they cannot see'The things pertaining to God are all unseen as are the things we do for others, and therefore they constitute 'spiritual things' whereas all our material things (houses/cars/money etc) these are all physical things.some people put more emphasis on the physical things of life and pay no attention to the things of God. So this sort or person cannot be a spiritual person even if they display some of those good qualities.Its more then just displaying the qualities for the sake of displaying the qualities. If you look at Jesus as an example, his focus in life was not on material things, it was on God and he gave everything he had for the sake of God.If you want a modern day example, think Ned Flanders LOL. Perfect example of a cartoon character who is not concerned with his material things more then the spiritual things. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

Hi Stile, your right, i didnt quite explain that fully...while I said being 'guided by Gods spirit,' i also added 'and acts in accord with that spirit'
but i didnt explain what "acting in accord with the spirit' means.You are saying that we all have said qualities simply because we are human and its a part of our intelligence. And you're right. It is a part of us, however these qualities do not naturally display themselves unless we activate them.We have to consciously display them. Lets say someone is hurling abuse at you for no reason and they have done something really nasty to you...you either blow your top and tell them in no uncertain terms you've had enough OR you quietly and respectfully explain your feelings showing restraint, humility & self control.Now i know whats easier to do lol. Its not so easy keeping oneself restrained under suffering. This is why having the qualities as a part of our nature is not the same as being a spiritual person.Now this is the 2nd part of the equation: Its not only about how we display those qualities, but also how we use our lives and what our emphasis on life is.
Can i call myself a spiritual person if my whole focus in life is on building my wealth for instance? Or if my focus is on self indulgence? Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

as usual, im going to completely contradict some of the above posts...i like to be differnt hehethe original hebrew is completely different to what our english definitions are.the hebrew word for soul is ne'phesh and it means the person himself, with the very blood in his veins, his very being. Its the flesh and blood or the body of the individual or animal. Thats why Genesis says 'the man came to be a living soul' and also that God created all the 'souls according to their kinds'IOW, living creatures ARE souls.In Hebrew ru'ach is spirit and it basically means 'breath'... and the word is extended in meaning to wind, the vital force in living creatures, one's spirit, spirit persons such as angelic creatures, and even to Gods holy spirit.
at Genesis 2:7 neshamah is the word that described Adams body coming to life. And later in Gen 7:22 we read about the death of those who died during the flood
"Everything in which the breath (neshamah) of the force of life (ruach) was active in its nostrils, namely, all that were on the dry ground, died."
Notice how Neshamah/breath is directly linked with ruach/spiritthis means that according to the original writers, people were souls, and their life was their spirit. When their body died, their spirit ended and their soul returned to the ground.its completely different to the english descriptions i know, but in terms of which ones are accurate, i'd always say the original writers are because they were the ones telling the story. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

it would have to be the opposite of both because the bible links fleshly things with immoral things.Romans 8:12 "6For the minding of the flesh means death, but the minding of the spirit means life and peace; 7because the minding of the flesh means enmity with God, for it is not under subjection to the law of God, nor, in fact, can it be. 8So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God."The following scripture from Galations sums it up pretty well spirituality is the opposite of sensuality, worldliness and selfish desire.Galations 5:16

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"But I say, Keep walking by spirit and YOU will carry out no fleshly desire at all. 17For the flesh is against the spirit in its desire, and the spirit against the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, so that the very things that YOU would like to do YOU do not do. 18Furthermore, if YOU are being led by spirit, YOU are not under law.

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19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, 20idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, 21envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.
22On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, 23mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.

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not at all. When the bible speaks of 'fleshly' things, its talking about immorality, not physical needs. there is nothing wrong with physical things.physical and fleshly are not the same thing.Also, not everything that is considered 'spiritual' is spoken of in a positive light. Some spiritualistic practices were condemned by God such as seeing a professional foreteller of events for instance. Spirit mediums were also forbidden practices, as was reading the stars in the way astrologers did.

The bible is not speaking about our physicality and our physical needs.Flesh is used figuratively when speaking of sin as is seen in Galatians 5:19-20Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like thesethese 'works of flesh' are what im referring to...not our general physical needs

yeah sorry about that, im confusing myself also now lol.back in that post I was speaking in a different context. But the context has changed slightly. I'll see if I can put it straight...fleshly = immorality
physical = material things
spiritual = things pertaining to unseen things. Whether the spirituality being spoken of is good or bad will depend on the context. I was thinking in terms of God, which is why I said it was the opposite of immoral.However, i wasnt taking bad spirituality into account....i should have specified the two to begin with.Good spiritual things pertain to God and his angels.
Bad spiritual things pertain to Satan and his demons.Some people are only interested in physical things...they are the ones spoken of here:A physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. However, the spiritual man examines indeed all things 1Cor 2:14-15Other people are fleshly in that they delve into immoral things and they are spoken of here:Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom. 1corinthians 5:19i hope i've cleared that up a bit. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

if its a form of spirituality that consists of practices condemned by God, then yes.I wish i had found this quote earlier, but here is what the New Thayers Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament says is a general meaning of the word “spirit” (pneuma)
the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one.So if spirit is a persons own disposition, would you agree that a persons disposition can be good or bad? they are one in the same according to Paul in Ephesians 2:1-3. The world follows the spirit of its ruler, Satan, who encourages fleshly (immoral) desire

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...though YOU were dead in YOUR trespasses and sins, in which YOU at one time walked according to the system of things of this world,
according to the ruler of the authority of the air (Satan),

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the spirit (disposition) that now operates in the sons of disobedience.

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Yes, among them we all at one time conducted ourselves in harmony with the desires of our flesh, doing the things willed by the flesh(immorality) and the thoughts, and we were naturally children of wrath even as the rest

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Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

Hi Jaywill, the KJV says 'the natural man'a literal translation will take the original words used in the original language and translate them in a direct way. In the case here, the original words used is Greek is psykhikos and in Latin its animalisIf the RV says 'soulish' I dont see a problem with that because its derived from the greek word psykhe which, as you can see, is also a derivative of the word psykhikos. That word 'psykhe' means a living person aka 'soul'.Im not sure what you're contesting??? i like the NWTit consistently renders the words in the way they were meant to be understood by the writers. I know that it is out of harmony with current doctrines & understanding, but i would rather know what the writers originally meant. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

i did ask my hebrew teacher about her understanding of soul and this she directed me to the biblical dictionary which defines Nefesh (soul) as:- a living being whose life resides in the blood
- the Nefesh becomes a living being by breathing Nishnat Haim into the nostrils of its Basar (flesh- man)
- nefesh is life itself, desire, appetite, emotion and passion. - the inner being of man.
- the essential of man, sometimes stands for the man himselfSo the jewish understanding is that the Nephesh is a living being, not a separate entity inside a living being. What the church's teach is a doctrine that is not based on the bible. Its there own interpretation and it is very contradictory to the bible.For me, i believe the bible over doctrine. Yes, i know that passage appears to be saying that, however Jesus words show that the soul can still die because he says "be in fear of him that can kill BOTH soul and body in gehenna"How we understand this verse is that because God’s servants have the hope of a resurrection in the event of death, they have the hope of living again. For that reason Jesus could say that whoever loses his soul for the sake of me and the good news will save it.Really, Jesus is making the distinction because while men can kill the body, they cannot kill the person for all time, because God can and will restore faithful people to life again.

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I have hope toward God, which hope these men also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. ACTS 24:15.

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Jesus supported and promoted arian teachings. Christians believed Jesus words and promoted the same teachings. If Jesus and the Apostles believed the Hebrew Scriptures, then why shouldn't we?with regard to the translators of the NWT, Since they have chosen to remain anonymous, the translation should be appraised on its own merits. If you look at all the articles and books written by the Watchtower society, you'll see that everything is anonymous. This is because no one person is responsible for writing. There is a whole committee of writers who all participate in developing the material they publish.The work is considered Gods work, so no writer takes any credit for the work they do. They dont even take payment for their work...everything is voluntary...that goes for the translation committee who put the books and articles into foreign languages too. If you agree that it is of the traditional understanding, what makes it incorrect?

Hi Jaywill, True, the witch of Endor claimed to get in touch with the dead prophet Samuel, but did she actually do so and is it in harmony with the hebrew scriptures?

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Eccl 9:5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all...

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Ps 146:3-4 Do not put YOUR trust in nobles,
Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish

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You can see from the verses in Ps and Ecc that the soul dies and there is no consciousness after death, so how could Samuel have been risen from the dead?Also, its highly unlikely that God made an exception seeing he had ordered all spirit mediums to be irradicated out of the land and outlawed divination and spiritism. Saul went to the witch because God had rejected him, so it certainly wasnt at Gods direction that Saul saw the witch.The question is, why did God condemn spiritism?
Spiritism wasnt a good thing in Gods eyes and its something that all the pagan nations practiced because it was a part of the worship of false gods. Sorcery is directly linked to the occult...its a demonic practice. The ones sorcerers conjour up are demons, not the souls of people.God does not use the demons to relay information to his people, never has and never will.

another thing that the writer conveys is the fact that God had rejected Saul and refused to speak with him concerning the philistine armies.

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1Samuel 28:5 When Saul got to see the camp of the Phi·lis”tines he became afraid, and his heart began to tremble very much.
6 Although Saul would inquire of Jehovah, Jehovah never answered him, either by dreams or by the U”rim or by the prophets.
7 Finally Saul said to his servants: “Seek for me a woman who is a mistress of spirit mediumship, and I will go to her and consult her.”

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It is apparent that by this stage of Sauls life, he had been rejected by God for Samuel had earlier annointed David as the next king. God was no longer communicating with Saul and its because of this that he chose to seek the spirit medium for advice about the philistines.thanks for sharing your perspective on the other two scriptures does this mean you do not view Eccl as an inspired book? i think this verse is coming from the view that we shouldnt put our trust in 'people' BECAUSE they all eventually die and can offer us no salvation

However Job asks God to put him into his grave and set a time limit to remember him....this must mean that Job believed that if he went into the grave, he'd be separated from God until such a time as God remembered him
Job 14:13 "O that in Sheol [the grave] you would conceal me, that you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, that you would set a time limit for me and remember me!"Job was obviously not afraid to go into the grave or Sheol, because he knew there would be a resurrection just as the Christians taught people...just as Christ was resurrectedPaul explains the resurrection hope when he says..."For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man.
For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive" 1Cor15:21-22If we all lived on after we died, we wouldn't need the resurrection. Surely life in heaven with Jesus and God Jehovah would be far better then a physical life on earth!Edited by Peg, : No reason given.