Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,914 Year: 4,171/9,624 Month: 1,042/974 Week: 1/368 Day: 1/11 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Intelligent Design Creationism
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 5 of 154 (109693)
05-21-2004 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by MrHambre
05-21-2004 11:09 AM


Will the real Intelligent Design please stand up?
It is hard to look at living creatures and believe in Intelligent Design. There are simply so many instances and examples of sub-optimal and even really bad design, to give much credence to the idea of design, even of Stupid Design.
Attributing really poor designs to some GOD simply implies that GOD is truly incompetent or has the most marvelous and mischievous sense of humor imaginable. If he designed humans, as an example, he had to be chuckling when he skipped the padding on shins and elbows, inserted an appendix and added on a coccyx. I can just hear him telling Gabriel, What ‘till you see what I did to the latest model.
BUT
When we begin looking deeper, at both the design of the universe, the history of evolution as shown in the world around us, at the beauty that is DNA and the wonderful way things are able to change to meet new conditions or opportunities, I see order and design.
Is it possible that there really is Intelligent Design, but that it is at the very finest level? Is it possible that the design was not of Humans, or Stars, or slime mold but at the very most basic building blocks?
edited to fix spelling
This message has been edited by jar, 05-21-2004 01:56 PM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MrHambre, posted 05-21-2004 11:09 AM MrHambre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Loudmouth, posted 05-21-2004 3:40 PM jar has replied
 Message 14 by nator, posted 05-27-2004 11:20 AM jar has replied
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 03-23-2005 4:05 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 154 (109707)
05-21-2004 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Loudmouth
05-21-2004 3:40 PM


Re: Will the real Intelligent Design please stand up?
To paraphrase Arthur Clark "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from GOD."

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Loudmouth, posted 05-21-2004 3:40 PM Loudmouth has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 154 (110869)
05-27-2004 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Wounded King
05-27-2004 6:17 AM


Re: Now that is funny.
Thanks. That is one of the best posts I have yet come across. It may take me days to get the coffee out of my keyboard and the dogs took my laughing fit as the perfect opportunity to snatch the Bannana Nut muffin I had heated for breakfast.
Too funny. Again, thanks.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Wounded King, posted 05-27-2004 6:17 AM Wounded King has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 15 of 154 (110879)
05-27-2004 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by nator
05-27-2004 11:20 AM


Re: Will the real Intelligent Design please stand up?
If you are asking if I believe that there is some hand in the mix saying this shall live and this shall pass away, then the answer is an emphatic NO.
What I see if the Divine Hand setting out the underlying rules of order that we are gradually learning, mayhaps even being the initial push that changed the status of what was and starting the Big Bang.
All else, the species that survived and those that became extinct are the results of those rules. The rules include those biological building blocks as well as the ones that govern physics, mathmatics and all other sciences.
The truly wonderful thing to me is that the basic instruction set included a method that allowed individuals, even whole species to change. While some became extict, life went on. Despite some of the greatest calamities imaginable, drifting contents, strikes by massive asteroids, changing climates and everything else that has happened, life has been able to evolve to meet every challenge.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by nator, posted 05-27-2004 11:20 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by nator, posted 06-03-2004 10:25 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 100 of 154 (126315)
07-21-2004 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Cold Foreign Object
07-21-2004 5:00 PM


Re: Just Assert IC Systems are Random
Acts 9 says Jesus Himself chose Paul.
LOL
The important point is if there was an Intellegent Designer he was a piss poor one. The only place that Intellegent Design can be even possibly seen is at the very simplest level. If you can accept that the basic laws of nature are the design, you have half a chance.
But if you want to believe that humans are the direct result of Intellegent Design then is would be far more appropriate to call it

"Really stupid not yet ready for the local Middle School Science Fair design".


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-21-2004 5:00 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 114 of 154 (126745)
07-22-2004 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Cold Foreign Object
07-22-2004 5:59 PM


Well, let's look at that from a Christian perspective.
About 300 year after Christ, the issue of what defined a Christian was debated. What came of that debate was what the kids in some of my Bible study classes called the "I believes", AKA, the Nicene Creed.
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
Looking through the list of the I believes, there is no mention of how God did anything, or of Paul, or of Romans. There is nothing that excludes the Therory of Evolution, nothing that supports Genesis and nothing that supports Intellegent Design.
So as a Christian, I really don't see where you are going to find much support in Christianity.
As Bishop Sims said:
Insistence upon dated and partially contradictory statements of how as conditions for true belief in the why of creation cannot qualify either as faithful religion or as intelligent science. Neither evolution over an immensity of time nor the work done in a sixday week are articles of the creeds. It is a symptom of fearful and unsound religion to contend with one another as if they were. Historic creedal Christianity joyfully insists on God as sovereign and frees the human spirit to trust and seek that sovereignty in a world full of surprises.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-22-2004 5:59 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024