Introduction to Information

I agree, there is information that occurs outside of consciousness. I put this on another topic as well, but it fits here too. Carbon contains information (as does every atom) that allows it to bind to other chemicals in a very specific nature. Methane, methanol, formic acid, etc are all molecules that involve one or two carbon atoms. The information stored in the valences of atoms allow predictable outcomes that could not exist if this information was not available. If an atom holds information, how special is DNA in this respect. How do you separate the information found in one atom and the information found in a polymer?

Can that information change to create new forms of hemoglobin? Can that information be passed generation to generation? Can major changes be made to this information over time to create "new information" without the intervention of an intelligence? If you want to claim that DNA stores information, which I will agree to, you also have to admit that that information can change and be biologically significant. And, you still haven't shown how the informatin stored in DNA is no different that the information in general chemical reactions.[This message has been edited by Loudmouth, 12-16-2003]

The same can be said for DNA. Transcribed, translated, and replicated DNA follows the same rules as carbon reactions. There is not a conscious decision by a "reader" in interpreting results. Therefore, if there is information in DNA then there is information in a carbon atom. Without atomic forces and relationships (the information so to speak) there would be no rules, or semantics. What I am trying to show is that the information stored in DNA is no different than the information stored in a carbon molecule. In fact, they may be directly comparable.Just as an example for semantics in carbon molecules, take the example of methane and methanol which differ by a hydrogen vs. hydroxyl group. One is a gas with a constant density (at room temp) and characteristics while methanol is a liquid (at room temp) with certain density and characteristics. As DNAunion pointed out, information in DNA allows the same hemoglobin to be expressed cell to cell, organism to organism, but the information in atoms allows the same characteristics for the molecule from reaction to reaction. DNA and carbon seem to hold the same type of information, ie chemical characterstics. I have yet to see how DNA is any different than any other chemical system, and the information content seems to be of the same type.

How do you think this information comes about, what is it's origination. I said before that I agree that there is information in DNA (not complaining here), but it is the origination of information and the production of information in DNA that is different than what is seen in human to human information. Would you agree with this statement or not? Or rather, do you think random mutation and natural selection can create information in the genome? A book can not create it's own information, but nonetheless holds information. DNA doesn't seem to fit this rule, at least in my opinion.

I just found this abstract (and corresponding article) and thought it tied in well with the OP. The paper claims to use Shannon Information Theory to show rapid evolution of binding sites in DNA through a computer model.----------------
Evolution of biological information.Schneider TD.National Cancer Institute, Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center, Laboratory of Experimental and Computational Biology, PO Box B, Frederick, MD 21702-1201, USA. toms@ncifcrf.govHow do genetic systems gain information by evolutionary processes? Answering this question precisely requires a robust, quantitative measure of information. Fortunately, 50 years ago Claude Shannon defined information as a decrease in the uncertainty of a receiver. For molecular systems, uncertainty is closely related to entropy and hence has clear connections to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. These aspects of information theory have allowed the development of a straightforward and practical method of measuring information in genetic control systems. Here this method is used to observe information gain in the binding sites for an artificial 'protein' in a computer simulation of evolution. The simulation begins with zero information and, as in naturally occurring genetic systems, the information measured in the fully evolved binding sites is close to that needed to locate the sites in the genome. The transition is rapid, demonstrating that information gain can occur by punctuated equilibrium.
------------------------Full article can be found here.