At what point should we look for a non-materialistic explanation?

How much genome DNA complexity does it take before we look for a non-materialistic explanation for life?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Parasomnium.Of course, that depends on one's perspective. From the ID perspective, that DNA complexity has previously baffled sciemce. requiring revised explanations supports the ID contention that complexity is a significant factor supportive of the ID POV.That complexity continues to baffle science raises the question as to how much science really knows via exclusive materialistic explanations for what is observed.Perhaps if science were to seriously research the possibility of a higher intelligence in the universe than what secularists consider to be observed on earth, science would discover that there are indeed non-materialistic explanations for some observable phenomena.The Exodus Nuweiba Beach Aqaba crossing evidence comes to mind which secularist oceanic science researchers and archeologists show no interest in falsifying or verifying. Imo, if they really figured they could falsify the evidence they would be on top of it in a big way, but alas, there's no materialistic explanation for the phenomenon.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Did any of the respondents to my last message happen to notice my example, as follows, relative to how secular scientists appear to have a paranoia towards non-materialistic research?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Subbie. I said that it appears that to be the case. Certainly something of this magnitude should arouse some serious research. No?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Say what, Lyx2no?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Larni. My point was that there comes a magnitude of complexity observed when non-materialistic factors should be considered.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Paul. Not so. There's the Biblical record which states that Mt Sinai is in Arabia. This motivated Wyatt and others to research the region and likely path of the Exodus.Without going into all of the pertinent details as to the change of route which Jehovah ordered, the do-able path to the region in question led to Nuweiba Beach which entrapped the Israelites on all sides by mountains.The beach happened to be at the most shallow area of the entire sea, then known as the Red Sea including the Gulf of Aqaba.The wheel and axle shaped formations happened to be the only such formations known in the Gulf region.These formations were photographed on both sides of the shallow area, most being wheel shape. The researchers were marine scientists who had research craft and equipment to do professional work.On the Arabian side other pertinent corroborating evidence was discovered, being a split rock as per scripture, having a dried up water flow protruding from it. Also a black topped mountain (not volcanic) having the appearance of being burnt as per scripture.Other evidence such as inscriptions of bulls and columns which could have been related to the Exodus, etc were cited.Bottom line: No, Paul; there's ample evidence to warrant research by such secularist entities such as the National Geographic Society, etc. Interestingly and apparantly, Nat'l Geographic amd their Robert Ballard, marine archeologist appear to have no interest in researching this significant discovery so as to either falsify or verify. Paul, this is a baseless assertion which was never verified conclusively in the debates. Again, a debatable factor, neither imperically verified or falsified as are your other points.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi PaulAZ. That all cultures of mankind's known history have embraced the non-materialistic lends evidence to non-materialistic origin.That the most blessed, civilized, free, industrious and prosperous of those cultures have been Biblical based and the most non-civilized, non-free and non-prosperous have been either other religions or secularist (i.e. communist) lends credence to the non-materialistic explanation. It did not fail in North America during it's first 200 years, but declines as NT Biblical principles decline.LOL! Secularism had it's big ruthless, bloody and non-productive shot last century when under secularist totalitarian regimes over 100 million of citizens in Europe and Asia were murdered by their own secularist, materialistic and anti-non-materialistic governments.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Straggler.To answer your question, the ever growing level of complexity being discovered and observed. Who's to know how much more there is to be learnt?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

I have never cited belief as evidence to anything, Straggler. Belief in anything should be based upon evidence.As I have stated in one thread, my conversion when I received Jesus as savior at age 10 came about in an evangelistic service when the evangelist spoke on fulfilled Biblical prophecy. Over the centuries I have observed other fulfillments, personal experiences and archeological discoveries, etc. which have bolstered my belief in the Biblical record, i.e. the non-materialistic explanation for life and all that is observed.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Straggler, be advised that I'm not joined at the hip to my computer.
As you were demeaning, I was composing. I'm a slow thinking old guy. It takes a lot of time to think up and research stuff so as to not make myself look even more stupid than you all think. Lay off the carbohydrates, my friend. They appear to be making you hyper and impetuous. God willing, I will get back to you and others. In the mean time I have a business and other things to attend to.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Straggler, all of the non-materialistic evidence to which I have alluded is just that, evidence which is effected by the non-materialistic, which folks refer to as supernatural.Like the DNA, the Exodus evidence cited is material but as per the topic title, some IDists regard it as having a non-materialistic explanation. Savvy, bud?Realistically, however, what is regarded as supernatural is actually a higher dimension of the existing material which is invisible to mankind, but which, according to the Biblical record and even some accults, etc, has the capability to make itself visible to mankind. I believe one terminology for this would be supranatural.Perhaps (I say 'perhaps') particles within the cosmos which have the appearance of moving in and out of existence border on the supranatural. If so, perhaps also this may be considered as science being obliged to begin dipping the toe into the uncharted waters of the supranatural. After all, isn't some mysterious aspects of QM and string theory non-materialistic in nature, inspiring some groups to believe this and others to believe that, relative to a given group's consensus, i.e. belief?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Teapot&u. Yes, I understand. It's like I cannot know 100% all about the wheel & axle shaped coral crusted stuff discovered in the region by the real post Exodus Mt Sinai where scripture has it and the other corroborating stuff cited in scripture, but like gravity, my belief is not baseless blind assertions. Again, that's pretty much how I go at believing non-materialistic effected events and phenomena. Check; Biblically predicted; subsequently observed; yup, me too. Yes, like Richard Feynman, renouned physics guru admitted there were some mysterious aspects of QM which even he didn't fully understand. I cited the quote somewhere in the archives years ago.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Lyx2no. Thanks for being patient.1. The boys who have researched are limited due to funding and due to restrictions from the Saudis who have a vested interest in debunking the Biblical record in favor of their Koran. Your boys who have the scientific clout and funding should make a concerted effort to research the region. But alas, for the most part they, like most of you here at EvC, have already written off the Biblical record as fable and fiction. Thus you wave off anything and everything to do with it.2. The reason secularists have this paranoia relative to each and every non-materialistic thing is that for any of you who are doggedly secular, one little non-materialistic miracle would be all it would take to topple your secularistic castle wherein you assume ammunity from accountability to any higher power.What happened to one chariot wheel? I don't know, but that doesn't X out all of the more sophisticated scientific research done after Wyatt's death in the region by Lennart Moller and others who regarded the evidence enough to expend their time and $$ into the project.You're exacting upon this what you are not willing to exact on mainline science. Neither is flawless and neither is totally objective. Both have differences of opinion amongst their ranks.Thanks for responding. I (almost) always appreciate your witty and sensible input, young man, whether or not we see things from the same perspective.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Huntard. Thanks for your patience.LOL! Those middle age atrocities perpetrated by the ruthless popes and bishops of Vaticanism were totally contrary to the NT Biblical scriptures of Jesus and his apostles who advocated non-violence, even to the point of loving one's enemies. What other religions than Biblical and what secularist cultures enjoy more freedom, prosperity and civility than what the modern western world still affords? Granted, now that the Biblical principles are being undermined the western world is loosing all of that.Folks here in the west are certainly not flocking to relocate in Muslim or secularistic communist regimes, for example. Who doesn't know what, Huntard?? You are not aware that our founders required the Bible and Watt's hymnal in all public schools, that Thomas Jefferson had church services held in the halls of congress, dispatching the Marine band for the music? You are unaware of all of the inscriptions on the buildings and walls of Washington DC? You are unaware that George Washington allocated funds to evangelize the Indians in Biblical doctrines? On and on I could go. Agreed, and alas, the more secularist they/we get the more they/we decline. The half has not been told as we descend to a very hard upandcoming landing!

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.