Buzsaw writes:
Really? What theist-evolutionist here at EvC has ever admitted to one miracle in the Bible? Can you cite some examples?
GDR writes:
I have no problem with the idea that God created using an evolutionary process. That is a miracle of creation itself. I believe fervently in the bodily resurrection. I argued for that a number of times on this forum. I believe in the healing miracles of Jesus.
CS Lewis (who hasn't posted here lately I'll agree) also had no problem with evolution and even wrote a whole book called Miracles in support of the miracles of the NT
Now you've replied with this.
Buzsaw writes:
Thanks, GDR. That's very interesting. So for you, no changing water into wine, no raising of Lazarus, no feeding of the 5000 with a boy's lunch, no creating anything in a day, etc, but the afterlife raising of the dead.
First off you're trying to change the channel. You essentially made the claim that those of us who don't believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis, and are prepared to accept that He used an evolutionary process, don't believe in miracles. I was simply pointing out that wasn't the case.
Then because I don't specifically point out all the NT miracles you accuse me of not believing in the ones I don't mention. Frankly it so happens that I do, and seeing as how I quoted Lewis' view earlier in this thread that the NT should be viewed as historical I would have thought that it would be safe to assume that you would know that.
Buzsaw writes:
Do you realize how shakey this makes your resurrection hopes? How do you figure God will do miracle after you die, for you when he or his son allegedly never did these Biblically acclaimed miracles, for man while alive? How do you determine which miracle/miracles you pick and choose to believe?
This is the problem I have with your brand of fundamentalism. You seem to feel that the big concern I should have is what happens to me when I die. What you have effectively done is turned Christianity 180 degrees from what Christ intended. You have made it all about me and my salvation.
Christianity at its most basic is about taking the focus off of the self and putting it on God and neighbour. It is about living a life transformed by God and His Holy Spirit in service of His creation, which of course includes our neighbour who has been made in His image.
In my view you have twisted Christ's message, turning it into a magic formula of believing the right stuff so that one can get to live forever. Read Matthew 25 and the separating of the sheep from the goats. It isn't about what you believe it's about the condition of your heart. It’s about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting those in prison etc. There is nothing there about believing the right doctrine making you righteous.
Read Matthew 7:
quote:
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
It is no wonder so many people have a problem with the message that you are trying to sell. It isn't scriptural and as a matter of fact it is anti-scriptural. Jesus is the word of God. Jesus is God incarnate. The Bible is a gift from God that should be used with wisdom. The Bible is not God.
The Bible is very clear that when we meet God in the next life it is the condition of our heart that we will be judged on, not our theology. The thing about being a Christian is that if we truly are sincere in our faith, making Christ Lord of our lives so that our lives are dedicated to working for His love, justice, truth, forgiveness, mercy etc, we have the gift of the Holy Spirit to help with that change of heart.
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