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Author Topic:   Faith healing: why does god need to asked to heal people?
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 5 of 63 (579110)
09-03-2010 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
09-03-2010 1:13 PM


Why does god need to be asked to heal people?
Having spent most of my life as a Christian, it is obvious. I have seen literally thousands of prayers answered, whether for healing, wisdom, courage, guidance, exam results(!), etc. Amazing, all of them. I once freed Terry Waite from his captivity in Lebanon by the power of my daily prayers.
But it is the tens of thousands that I have seen go unanswered, those desperate for healing and getting none, those following every Word given them and falling further and further into debt and despair, Terry Waite spending four years as a hostage in Lebanon despite me praying for him every day; it is they that answer your question.
God does not exist, or at least dcertainly not in any form recognisable by evangelical Christians. Or anyone that thinks that intercessory prayer works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Larni, posted 09-03-2010 1:13 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Larni, posted 09-03-2010 6:07 PM cavediver has not replied
 Message 12 by archaeologist, posted 09-04-2010 6:42 PM cavediver has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 20 of 63 (579586)
09-05-2010 4:16 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by archaeologist
09-04-2010 6:42 PM


then why did you leave God?
I didn't. I cannot leave something that does not exist. I simply finally had the courage to leave childish ways behind.
is God bound to answer only the way you want? cannot God say 'no' or 'not at this time' or 'your request is corrupted by the wrong motive'?
You missunderstand - there were no answered prayers, only simple random chance and confirmation bias.
God does exist you just let your doubt allow evil to lead you astray.
No. As with most Christians, I experienced doubt all through my 23 years as a believer. I no longer have any doubts. As sure as you know you are right (and you are so very sure), I know you are wrong

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by archaeologist, posted 09-04-2010 6:42 PM archaeologist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by archaeologist, posted 09-05-2010 7:07 AM cavediver has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 23 of 63 (579607)
09-05-2010 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by archaeologist
09-05-2010 7:07 AM


Arch writes:
yet you can't say that as you cannot prove those prayers were unanswered. nor can you say that because you have not been to every place in the world at the same time to make sure He wasn't avoiding you.
you are quite correct - but any god that wants to play silly games like that can go fuck himself - why would I want to worship a being that has less love and empathy for the World than me?
CD writes:
I simply finally had the courage to leave childish ways behind.
Arch writes:
for what? a process that does not exist? a false belief? or your own way? all of which offers you nothing.
I don't need to be offered anything. I am owed nothing. I am alive, I experience. That is all.
CD writes:
You missunderstand - there were no answered prayers, only simple random chance and confirmation bias.
Arch writes:
prove it.
That's the point - I can't prove (or even begin to support) that prayers are "answered" more frequently than random chance would suggest. Your god is no better than random chance, so why waste your time worshipping that?
CD writes:
No. As with most Christians, I experienced doubt all through my 23 years as a believer.
Arch writes:
i have no doubts so we know your statement is in error.
Ah, you are obviously unaware of the word "most". Your one data point does not discount a "most". You, my friend, are rather extreme in the world of evangelical Christians - you are very far from typical.
Arch writes:
yes you do, you doubt that God exists
There is no doubt The evangelical Christian god does not exist. Sorry. But the Universe is still a beautiful place...
Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by archaeologist, posted 09-05-2010 7:07 AM archaeologist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by archaeologist, posted 09-05-2010 5:18 PM cavediver has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 29 of 63 (579698)
09-05-2010 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by archaeologist
09-05-2010 5:18 PM


yup the spoiled child syndrome. didn't get what he wanted so he throws a tantrum and false accusations to boot.
Huh? Didn't get what I wanted? I'm ashamed of how much I have compared to most - amazing family, wealth, health, and contentment in my place in the Universe.
you made the charge, the burden of proof is upon you. oh and there are ways to prove that God did it.
You know how to *prove* that God is behind something?
And you are not sharing this here at EvC, where it could convince the 1000s who read this site of God's existence? Get typing!
it is just that unbelievers will not see it because no matter what a believer does they doubt, deny, and disbelieve so it is no wonder they would make statements lik eyours.
But I was a believer for many many years - and I'm telling them to doubt, deny, and disbelieve - you have nothing but your own personal crutch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by archaeologist, posted 09-05-2010 5:18 PM archaeologist has not replied

  
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