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Author Topic:   Existence After Death
Rahvin
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Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.6


Message 34 of 163 (581793)
09-17-2010 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Theodoric
09-17-2010 1:14 PM


Re: Absolutes again
quote:
Most people who are alive have a healthy appreciation for staying that way, so I find it unsurprising that they would express a desire to make it permanent.
I have to disagree with your use of "most". By most do you mean 51%? Do you mean 75%? A lot of people I know have no desire for eternal life. When you present them with the ideas like boredom and a rationale look at what eternity truly means I think people will have a different outlook.
Your disagreement is absurd. The vast majority of people on Earth believe in and actively desire eternal life after the death of the physical body. Most people do want to live forever - they'd just rather do it in a paradise rather than here on Earth, and I don't think anyone can fault a person for preferring an eternal existence without any of the concerns and stresses of the real world.
Aside from that there is the simple fact that today, you want to live another day. Tomorrow, you will still want to live yet another day. Unless and until you suffer such injury or illness that your quality of life degrades to the point where you would prefer nonexistence, you will still want to continue to live every day henceforth.
The entire notion of "who wants to live forever" is a coping mechanism for a species constrained by the bounds of the human life span. Everyone fears death. Everyone would prefer not to die. If you grew up in a post-death society, where nobody ever died and true immortality abounded, and someone suggested to you that "hey, let's give up this eternal existence and just go die," you'd think they were crazy. Nonsense like "well, after an eternity of living, you'd get bored" is an excuse, a made-up "positive" to death so that we feel better about the inevitable. It's proven by the fact that the vast majority of people, as I said above, do believe in and desire eternal life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Theodoric, posted 09-17-2010 1:14 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Theodoric, posted 09-17-2010 3:06 PM Rahvin has replied
 Message 40 by Omnivorous, posted 09-17-2010 5:32 PM Rahvin has not replied
 Message 45 by frako, posted 09-18-2010 6:58 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.6


Message 36 of 163 (581797)
09-17-2010 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by AricVader
09-14-2010 9:56 PM


The conclusion I have come to is that our reality is made of energy and matter. If everything is energy and matter then thought and memory would have to be a form of energy. Now, I like to think that in death these energies just change form (energy cannot be created or destroyed) and one simply enters a different state of mind so to speak. More recently I have began to dissect this conclusion and believe there are some flaws with it but would like to see some facts on it (for or against) or different logical approaches.
While your conclusion follows from your premise, your premise is unfortunately false. Thought and memory are not forms of energy like heat or light. Thought is a series of electrochemical reactions in your brain; memory is physically-stored patterns in teh brain that can be recalled. In both cases, the energy is not the relevant portion - it's the specific pattern of energy and matter as it processes in your brain that is thought and memory. Disruption of that pattern results in alteration or cessation of one or both. Your thoughts, memory, and identity do not persist after the destruction of your brain for the same reason that a computer no longer processes or stored information after it's been dismantled. The energy and matter currently processing your thoughts and memories will indeed continue to exist eternally, but the patterns will be disrupted, your thoughts and memories terminated.
A post-death consciousness would require that consciousness not be solely located in the physical brain. That's quite thoroughly disproven by the facts of brain damage - damage or alteration of the brain causes immediate corresponding change in personality, memory, etc. If personal identity, thought, and memory were independent of the brain, then those changes would not occur; brain damage would not cause amnesia, frontal lobotomies would not alter personalities, etc.
Reality is rather uncaring about our own preferences.
That said, some form of immortality is not necessarily an impossibility. Researchers are investigating the causes of aging and how to diminish their effect or stop aging altogether - whether such a thing is possible given human biology is still unknown.
Personally, if we go far out into the realm of science fiction, I'd prefer to have my brain patterns uploaded into a computer, preferably through a slow process of iterative augmentation and replacement of brain tissue such that my consciousness is not interrupted, and eventually allowing me to rewrite my own thought processes to eliminate the inherent flaws in human cognition. Yes, a clone body with downloaded consciousness or a copy of my brain patterns into a computer would satisfy the immortality of my identity in that a distinction without a difference makes no difference; however, I would prefer not to experience death, and so I would prefer solutions where the original "me" doesn't experience such a thing.
I don't fear immortality, and I don't think I'd ever really get bored.
I don't necessarily "fear" the cessation of existence; I would prefer to continue to exist and will avoid death as long as possible, but non-existence isn't painful, emotionally or physically, so it's not so scary. I do fear the process of death itself, as it doesn't seem to be very pleasant, particularly violent death; and I fear the death of those I care for, because I remain to miss them. I would much rather live in a world without death, so that none of us ever have to say goodbye.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by AricVader, posted 09-14-2010 9:56 PM AricVader has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by AricVader, posted 09-18-2010 1:24 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.6


Message 37 of 163 (581799)
09-17-2010 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Theodoric
09-17-2010 3:06 PM


Re: Absolutes again
Do you want to die today, Theodoric? Did you want to die yesterday? The day before? Do you anticipate wanting to die tomorrow? Perhaps next Tuesday? Next year? When do you anticipate that you will want to die, assuming that chance and entropy don't make that decision for you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Theodoric, posted 09-17-2010 3:06 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Theodoric, posted 09-17-2010 3:24 PM Rahvin has not replied
 Message 47 by caffeine, posted 09-20-2010 4:38 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
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