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Author Topic:   Another Test for Intelligent Design Proponents
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5062 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 23 of 151 (272904)
12-26-2005 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by MangyTiger
12-23-2005 7:30 PM


Re: ID-ers? Where are you?
quote:
“The concept of a multidimensional “surface” of mean selective values on which a population moves toward the immediately controlling peak (except as diverted by the other systematic pressures, recurrent mutation, and immigration, and by random process was developed (Wright 1932) for natural populations, assumed to have been breeding according to the same system long enough that there is divergence from random combination only as forced by interactive selection”
quote:
EVOLUTION AND THE GENTICS OF POPULATIONS by Sewall Wright Uchicago p 105
quote:
”A cross between two inbred lines is likely to have a selective value higher than the nearest peak on the equilibrium surface. The randomnly bred descendents will thus move down tpward the latter. Because of this sort of situation, Moran (1964) has drawn the conclusion indicated by the title of his paper, “The nonexistence of Adaptive Topographies.” This, however, was based on a misunderstanding of the concept.
quote:
EVOLUTION AND THE GENTICS OF POPULATIONS by Sewall Wright Uchicago p 105
Kant’s notion of habitat still applies here. Elite evolutionists must have not communicated what “same system” means well enough.
quote:
The first thing that must be designedly prepared in an arrangement for a purposive complex of natural beings on the earth would be their place of habitation, the soil and the element on and in which they are to thrive. But a more exact knowledge of the constitution of this basis of all organic production indicates no other cause than those working undesignedly, causes which rather destroy than favor production, order, and purposes. Land and sea not only contain in themselves memorials of ancient might desolations which have confounded them and all creatures that are in them, but their whole structure, the strata of the one and the boundaries of the other, have quite the appearance of ebing the product of the wild and violent forces of a nature working in a state of chaos. Although the figure, the structure, and the slope of the land might seem to be purposively ordered for the reception of water from the air, for the welling up of streams between strata of different kinds I (for many kinds of products), and for the course of the rivers, yet a closer investigation shows that they are merely the effects of volcanic eruptions or of inundations of the ocean, as regards not only the first production of this figure but, above all, its subsequent transformation,as well as the disappearance of its first organic productions. Now, if the place of habitation of all these creatures, the soil(of the land) or the bosom (of the sea), indicates nothing but a quite undersigned mechanism of its production, how and with what right can we demand and maintain a different origin for these latter products?
quote:
Kant Critique of Judgment Methodology of the Teleolgical Judgment @82
Now we can start from Para’sleft figure if we can agree to start the discussion from
quote:
Chapter 3 Systematic Change of Gene Frequency: Single Loci Such evolutionary processes as mutation, immigration, selection , and inbreeding seem at first sight to be so different in nature that quantitative comparisons of effects would be impossible. They may, however , be brought under a common viewpoint by measuring each by its effect on gene frequency much as physical phenomena of the most diverse sorts may be reduced to a common quantitative basis by measuring their capacities to do work.
The persistence of gene frequencies discussed in the proceeding chapter is not due to a true equilibrium but merely to an absence of disturbing processes. The slightest disturbance may be expected to produce changes that have no tendency to revert.
quote:
EVOLUTION AND THE GENTICS OF POPULATIONS by Sewall Wright Uchicago p 24
The designer need simply supply the evidence of a truly equilibrated law here as a “key” Kant denied existed but before mating systems were seen to turn Mendel division signs
and either figure can be argued to a plan of systematic pressures. Sustaining the first diagram would be harder for man
to
keep constant but assuming the peaks and values in the second are only figurative there seems little doubt to me if the GAMODEME (“If sufficiently extensive, any of the above patterns may be treated as hierarchic by subdivision of the whole into a number of primary subdivisions, these into a number of secondary ones , and so on down to groups that may be treated as homogenous within themselves. The convenient term “deme” of Gilmour and Gregor (1939) has come to be used for this ultimate unit of population, though in a narrower sense (gamodeme) than they proposed.” EVOLUTION AND THE GENTICS OF POPULATIONS by Sewall Wright Uchicago p 290-1)
was expressed from Croizat’s method under Gladyshev’s law etc.
even
the probabilistic discrepancy of current ID from current criticism MIGHT, I only say might -be obviated. That seems all that needs to be required in response? I tend to think it was due to the difference of Price and one of his followers that Creationism has not followed up the project of creating verifiably complex man-made habitation concepts out of niche space. I do not know if some of the “popularity” of ID would rub off if it had to dip back into an older Biblical Creationism Tradition than the P&P title seems to suggest. The problem however was not solved by evolutionists either and that is generally the yardstick when not on their own turf.
I do not know how much longer my website will be up for now, but the point of ecosystem engineering begins where the slope goes “down” according to Wright.
http://www.students.tc3.edu/bmcfall/fripge.htm
This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 12-26-2005 04:52 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by MangyTiger, posted 12-23-2005 7:30 PM MangyTiger has not replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5062 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 58 of 151 (274690)
01-01-2006 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Parasomnium
01-01-2006 1:38 PM


Re: The point of this thread
Phrasing it that way (subjective vs objective) already precludes current ID as as far as I see it as there has not been a determinative judgment made from subjective reflections. It would be a rare evc event to see in your thread the determination to convert ALL subjective reflections into an object of objectivity. I have already indicated I see no reason to think that the first or the second figure is any less or more "subjective."
This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 01-01-2006 03:09 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Parasomnium, posted 01-01-2006 1:38 PM Parasomnium has not replied

  
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