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Author Topic:   Another Test for Intelligent Design Proponents
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 121 of 151 (284808)
02-07-2006 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by inkorrekt
02-07-2006 9:44 PM


Re: explanation
quote:
If random choice and natural selection is observable, why is it that I could never observe the pieces of a puzzle self assemble themselves?
Umm...maybe because there is no natural selection nor "random choice" [sic] involved with the puzzle scenario?
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quote:
If random choice and natural selection is observable, why is it that I could never observe the pieces of a puzzle self assemble themselves?
That's unfortunate for your friends, since useful mutations have been observed. Google "nylon bug" and "hemoglobin C".
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quote:
Why is it that amino acids do not self assemble to make proteins?
Are you sure about this? Look up the law of mass action; you will find that in any mixture of chemicals in equilibrium both reactants and products will be present in some non-zero amount. So, if there are amino acids present, one would expect some polymers to be present as well.
--
Added by edit:
Speaking of looking things up, have you read up on the Urey/Miller experiments yet? You seem to have a habit of making serious errors of fact without acknowledging your mistakes.
This message has been edited by Chiroptera, 08-Feb-2006 04:40 AM

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by inkorrekt, posted 02-07-2006 9:44 PM inkorrekt has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by inkorrekt, posted 02-11-2006 6:29 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 151 (285010)
02-08-2006 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by inkorrekt
02-08-2006 2:48 PM


Re: explanation
quote:
For amino acids to form proteins a preformed cellular architechture is necessary.
This is false. First, simply by the law of mass action, if you have a solution that includes amino acids there will be a few polypeptides as well.
Second, catalysts to this reaction that do not involve preformed cellular architecture.
--
quote:
In Nature, you have 2 forms of amino acids. One is the L-form. Which is biologically active. The D-form is abiological poison.
Funny, but free oxygen is also a poison to life. Yet there is free oxygen, and there is life.
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quote:
For protein sysnthesis to occur,. all 20 amino acids must exist.
This is false. Polypeptides can consist of only a single amino acid.
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quote:
Unless you are a chemist, it is hard to understand why it cannot happen.
Actually, you don't seem to know much about chemistry yourself.

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by inkorrekt, posted 02-08-2006 2:48 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 131 of 151 (285369)
02-09-2006 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by inkorrekt
02-09-2006 9:58 PM


Re: explanation
Is the use of ALL CAPS supposed to be a sign that you are an expert chemist?
Added by edit:
Actually, inkorrekt, if you wanted to convince anyone that you actually know something, you can read something about the Urey/Miller experiment. Then admit that embarrassing post of yours was substantially incorrect and inform us that you now understand what the significance of that experiment really is.
This message has been edited by Chiroptera, 10-Feb-2006 04:20 AM

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by inkorrekt, posted 02-09-2006 9:58 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 143 of 151 (285885)
02-11-2006 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by inkorrekt
02-11-2006 6:29 PM


Re: explanation
I guess I will have to repeat myself.
The intention of the Urey/Miller experiments were NOT to produce life in the laboratory. I am going to say it again: the point of the Urey/Miller experiments were NOT to produce life. The purpose of the Urey/Miller experiments were to test the idea that relatively complex organic molecules associated with life, like amino acids, could be produced without life in conditions roughly simulating the primordial earth. That is your first error.
Your second error was stating that only the amino acid glycine was produced. In fact, among the organic materials produced, at least thirteen different amino acids were produced.
Your third error was stating that this experiment was never repeated. In fact, many people not only repeated this exact experiment, but repeated similar experiments mimicking various different conditions for the primordial earth, and in every case complex organic material was produced.
Here is a link to the Urey/Miller experiments.
Your fourth mistake, as Wounded King pointed out, was stating that glycine comes in L- and D-forms. In fact, glycine does not exhibit chirality.
Just so other people know what we are discussing, this is the original post with the errors.

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by inkorrekt, posted 02-11-2006 6:29 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
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