I honestly don't deserve to be a Christian, based on the expectations of such a person. Unlike the widow and her two mites, I am not at all eager to give all that I have away to the poor.
Probably because that would, in effect, make you poor. Distributing 100% of your wealth in the interest of the poor then makes you poor -- a pointless and self-refuting proposition.
I am, in a word, selfish.
Anyone who serves their self-interests is selfish. Reminds me of Milton Friedman.
Some would suggest that I am coming close to an unpardonable sin. I just want to be left alone. Don't ask me why I don't want to sacrifice for others. I couldn't tell you.
I remember well the incredible exhaustion of never being good enough for God and tormenting yourself trying to appease a standard that could never be met, and the dissonance it caused.
I think after some honest introspection, you'll realize how miserable following God's unrealistic goals are making you.
I don't mean this to condescend you, I'm just expressing that I've been here before with that constant agony and intangible pang in the heart for not being able to measure up.
My earnest suggestion is to stop torturing yourself and let go.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
I think after some honest introspection, you'll realize how miserable following God's unrealistic goals are making you.
That's false.
There are no "goals". What you have described is religion or more specifically, legalism.
Under legalism, you might get guilt, but not under grace.
My walk with God, so many times I wanted or expected God would judge me or get angry, and infact He responded with mercy.
It's a shame, but so many people only offer a strawman of the real deal, and then say that the real deal isn't real.
In actual fact, they should logically just tell the truth - that for them it did not work out.
That Phat has guilt means he is going back to legalism, when the teachings of the New Testament are clear about this.
I think Phat has a mix - he is letting religion and philosophies get in there, and you are acting as opportunists, giving your personal testimonies in an attempt to deconvert him, by saying, "don't bother with God, he's fake, he's not there, just forget it".
These falsehoods are only testimony of personal experience, they do not describe every experience. My experience is that there is a growing process, whereby guilt is a very common factor, while you are on milk.
I remember well the incredible exhaustion of never being good enough for God and tormenting yourself trying to appease a standard that could never be met, and the dissonance it caused.
I think after some honest introspection, you'll realize how miserable following God's unrealistic goals are making you.
I don't mean this to condescend you, I'm just expressing that I've been here before with that constant agony and intangible pang in the heart for not being able to measure up.
My earnest suggestion is to stop torturing yourself and let go.
I think there are several problems there, first the idea of being good enough for God, as if God really cared.
But I also think the idea of "Let go" is just a cop out, a way to get out of doing what we are charged to do.
I blame most of that on the Christian Cult of Ignorance and their marketing campaign. I'll admit that what they teach, what Mike-the-Wiz is marketing here, is an easy sell and very, very profitable for the snake oil salesmen, but it is little more than easy sell with no product liability risks.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
I blame most of that on the Christian Cult of Ignorance and their marketing campaign. I'll admit that what they teach, what Mike-the-Wiz is marketing here, is an easy sell and very, very profitable for the snake oil salesmen, but it is little more than easy sell with no product liability risks
You have mis-understood what I said.
What, "ignorance"? What is the cop-out?
I think you're way off even coming close to what I mean.
Phat says he doesn't "feel" urges to be generous. Well, being generous won't get him into heaven. Christ, our righteousness, is the one who saves us, and he IS generosity. For God IS LOVE.
If you have God, you have love. Christ didn't "feel" good on the cross.
Phat has received faith, and with a noble heart accepted it, and will bare fruit with patience, (paraphrase). Therefore, perhaps you can elaborate on what I have said, in particular, that you deem snake oil?
Are you saying to pray to God, to seek answers from God, is not right? Ask and you shall receive. For the Gospels tell us we can ask anything in accordance with His will. Is this snake oil?
If you judge me to sell "snake oil", then you say my works are false, despite not even knowing me. If your fruit was good, you would not have to judge me, or even mention me. You have shown your fruit, when you made the same statement as the fringe lunatics, by flat-out telling us who is going to hell, as if you are god.
But I also think the idea of "Let go" is just a cop out, a way to get out of doing what we are charged to do.
Let go of what? Who said, "let go?" What are "we" charged to do, and by whom? Allah, Buddha?
Should I do as Allah says or Christ? Should I seek Jihad?
What are "we" charged to do? Who is "we"?
Your blanket-statement was frankly weird to me, why you felt the need to say I sell snake oil is particularly odd to me. (I think it's an EPITHET because you can't actually refute what I said, that way you can just use loaded terms, as the easy way out of actually providing a sound argument.)
I think there are several problems there, first the idea of being good enough for God, as if God really cared
I think the problem is that you over-value what you think rather than what God thinks, according to scripture. We don't care what you think God thinks, only what He tells us He thinks, in the word.
God cares about righteousness in scripture, and hates sin. The problem that seperates us from God, is sin. Nobody can e good enough.
Christ, our righteousness, according to the NT, has imputed to us righteousness, so that God does not condemn us. When we are born again, we receive the new nature. This gives us the potential to not walk in our old ways.
It's about understanding it EXACTLY the way it was described by the expert the apostle Paul.
Are you saying to pray to God, to seek answers from God, is not right? Ask and you shall receive. For the Gospels tell us we can ask anything in accordance with His will. Is this snake oil?
Yup, snake-oil but I'll admit, it isd packaged in a pretty bottle and very profitable for them that are selling it.
If you ask God, the only thing you should ask is "What should I do?"
MTW writes:
If you judge me to sell "snake oil", then you say my works are false, despite not even knowing me.
Too funny.
You post your product Mike, I don't judge you I judge the product you try to market.
MTW writes:
Let go of what? Who said, "let go?" What are "we" charged to do, and by whom? Allah, Buddha?
Should I do as Allah says or Christ? Should I seek Jihad?
What are "we" charged to do? Who is "we"?
A popular saying among the Christian Cult of Ignorance is "Let go and Let God" but I was replying to a post where "Let go" was suggested.
And there is no difference between Allah and Christ so that is irrelevant.
We are charged to try to do for others; to do and not profess. Acts speak. We is each and every Christian.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
I think there are several problems there, first the idea of being good enough for God, as if God really cared
I think the problem is that you over-value what you think rather than what God thinks, according to scripture. We don't care what you think God thinks, only what He tells us He thinks, in the word.
God cares about righteousness in scripture, and hates sin. The problem that seperates us from God, is sin. Nobody can e good enough.
Christ, our righteousness, according to the NT, has imputed to us righteousness, so that God does not condemn us. When we are born again, we receive the new nature. This gives us the potential to not walk in our old ways.
It's about understanding it EXACTLY the way it was described by the expert the apostle Paul.
Word salad, a nice Carny spiel and a cheap easy cop out.
The "Born Again" you are marketing is worthless.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
Your acts speak. You have no need to say false things about me when I am telling the truth to the best of my knowledge, and in good faith.
You say, "too funny" and repeat the loaded word, "snake-oil" and now bring in another loaded term, called my "product". YOu also try to make a fallacy of association, by remarking about a "cult-of-ignorance" so that people can lump me into that category. Not very honest of you, you mate Allah-the pink unicorn who died on the whisky won't be too pleased with you.
( All of the readers are supposed to just take your word for it.)
If you believe according to your ignorance of mike the wiz that mike the wiz is selling something, that is snake oil, or is a pretty but false product, then fine, have that false belief.
Meanwhile, I don't have any belief about you, all I know is that you have judged me to be false, and have judged with certainty as to who is going to hell..
you post your product Mike, I don't judge you I judge the product you try to market.
Here is my EQUAL refutation, logically.
You post your product Jar, I don't judge you I judge the product you try to market. Too funny, Jar!
And there is no difference between Allah and Christ so that is irrelevant.
Nice product there, Jar - telling us there's no difference between Allah and Christ. Too funny, that snake oil.
Remind me how many sales you have got for telling people that Allah and Christ aren't any different?
Sorry mate, all of this only makes sense in jar-world, where the pink unicorn died on the cross and where Jar tells us who is going to heaven.
How many have actually read the Gospel of Jar and believed?
(And you think I have a product, now that is TOO FUNNY!!)
There are no "goals". What you have described is religion or more specifically, legalism.
Under legalism, you might get guilt, but not under grace.
Semantics.
My walk with God, so many times I wanted or expected God would judge me or get angry, and infact He responded with mercy.
How did God communicate with you?
I think Phat has a mix - he is letting religion and philosophies get in there, and you are acting as opportunists, giving your personal testimonies in an attempt to deconvert him, by saying, "don't bother with God, he's fake, he's not there, just forget it".
Sorry, I don't give a shit enough to go chasing after Phat to deconvert him, and I don't get brownie points with a Master if I do. I was giving him an honest reply, not tired, worn out apologetics.
These falsehoods are only testimony of personal experience, they do not describe every experience.
I never said it wasn't an anecdote. But you know, I've known Phat for years, and this self-deprecating theme is a recurring one. I wonder how many earnest, heart-felt prayers the man has uttered, and nothing seems to satiate his hunger.
I know it's much easier to have a scapegoat demon as the perennial fall guy, but at least entertain the possibility that this is the net result of years of the Shame Gospel and fire and brimstone evangelism.
My experience is that there is a growing process, whereby guilt is a very common factor, while you are on milk.
So Phat hasn't achieved level 3 Sorcerer yet like you... Got it... Good to know
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
Please stop misrepresenting what I say or provide links to where I mention "where the pink unicorn died on the cross and where Jar tells us who is going to heaven."
Please provide a link to where I ever asked anyone to "... read the Gospel of Jar and believed?"
Please provide a link to where I judged you or judged you to be false.
And yes MTW, the product I try to sell is NOT desirable, not an easy sell, where there is some "Born again" moment where you suddenly get changed, where there is any assurance that you will be saved.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
Again - that "born-again" was not stated to be a moment, or an easy cop out. For me personally, it took years, I did not know I was born again because of false teachings such as Allah being the same as Christ.
But you didn't ask me for that information, you just jumped to a conclusion.
Again - that "born-again" was not stated to be a moment, or an easy cop out. For me personally, it took years, I did not know I was born again because of false teachings such as Allah being the same as Christ.
But you didn't ask me for that information, you just jumped to a conclusion.
No, I went by what you post, and the fact that you think it happened simply confirms my opinions.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
I think there are several problems there, first the idea of being good enough for God, as if God really cared.
Yeah, good point.
But I also think the idea of "Let go" is just a cop out, a way to get out of doing what we are charged to do.
And what are we charged to do?
I blame most of that on the Christian Cult of Ignorance and their marketing campaign. I'll admit that what they teach, what Mike-the-Wiz is marketing here, is an easy sell and very, very profitable for the snake oil salesmen, but it is little more than easy sell with no product liability risks.
Won't argue that.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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