Born Again

You only asserted things in this post. I think it is an emotive post, an unnecessary one aswell You already have tried, by telling him the wrong things.He asked for advice, I gave it. The advice you gave is according to disbelief, he is Christian.If I gave an atheist Christian advice I would be called an opportunist.Why you felt the need to jump to all of those other conclusions, I don't know, I would need to be in your head to know. (Brownie points for example, when the scripture says, "therefore be unprofitable servants")Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

Fortunately I don't value your opinion in the least.Why should I? It's not as though you have dealt honestly with me. All you have done is to try and force your own picture of me onto everyone else.If I am vile to you in some way, or you believe my faith is fake, what can I do? It's not like telling you the truth is going to change your mind.You can have those opinions if you want, but if you are going to state publicly that I am this way, then you are going to have to provide some solid and sound logic, perhaps in the form of a syllogism.But all I know is that I gave phat some advice as a fellow-believer.Sure, I admitt, as atheists most here will not value that advice, or even understand it, but to say false things about me without even knowing me just isn't necessary.

Speaking as a Christian I believe I am charged to do for others as I would like others to do for me. That doesn't mean give everything away, it means bringing in the trash can for the elderly couple that lives next door, getting the package down off the shelf the other person can't reach, squat down when talking to children so you are at their eye level, letting the mother with the passel of kids go ahead of you in line, holding the door open for someone whose arms are full.But addressing the topic, being Born Again is done every day, every moment. It is what YOU do not something that happens to you; it is recognizing and acknowledging when you screw up, being sorry about it, trying to make amends and trying to not screw up the same way in the future.Being Born Again is a never ending process, never finished, never complete.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

You know, you are the one who came on here all guns blazing.(If it's because I said don't call me mikey, I only said that because sometimes I don't think you realize how condescending you can be.We are all human, we all have thoughtful minds. I only require the respect that I give you.)

How is it more or less emotive than anything else anyone says? Maybe that's part of the problem. Why treat the symptoms when you can treat the actual cause? So what if you were? Because I've been there from firsthand experience and I know what he's going through. I'm being sympathetic to his plight. But you took it to an extreme like I want to follow him around so I can deconvert him. Really all that does his highlight your mindset because you have to be converting people. I don't. I don't want to convert Phat to the darkside, or whatever it is you think I'm doing.Phat's a big boy and he can make his own decisions. I was just giving him a look from an outside perspective.

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"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

I have not said anything about you mike, claiming I have is really silly unless you can point to where it was said.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Respect must be earned.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

I don't fully disagree with this post, but I would say that being born again is the beginning of being transformed into the image of Christ. At that moment, you receive the Holy Spirit. Only God can change somebody from within, as God is the missing element.Through sanctification, as mentioned in the New Testament, there is a process, ofcourse. This is why I think you have misunderstood me. I am not selling anything that the Gospels do not say if you have read them. You can find all of the subjects I have mentioned;1. Fruit of the spirit.
2. Sowing to the spirit.
3. Hearing the word with a noble heart and bearing fruit with patience.
4. Being transformed, renewing of our minds, putting away the old man.
5. Sanctification and grace.(We study these things every week during bible study. We are selling exactly what Paul wrote. I know that "the earnest prayer of a righteous man avails much", therefore my advice to Phat is to only do as the New Testament says - all of it, not just parts, and to study it. That is good advice, not snake oil)

I think that's probably part of Jar's contention. Jar isn't exactly a Pauline, and if my memory serves me correctly, he thinks Paul bastardized Jesus' gospel.*Jar, feel free to correct any misconceptions*

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"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

The only thing I've attacked is empty words, as Jesus did:

quote:

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Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

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When He spoke to Nicodemus about being "born again", He said:

quote:

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Joh 3:10 Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

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He was clearly telling Nicodemus to "be more Jewish", to be reborn in the Jewish sense, not by asking God to do it for him but to make an effort to do it himself.

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If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

No - everyone is equal to God, "God is no respecter of persons". Whether you know it or not, we are all equal to God. Of equal worth.When I say I respect you, I don't mean it as the world means it - saying it to appeal to pride. I mean I have not cursed at you, I have not judged you or said personal things about your character, and have tried to evaluate what you have said with objective reasoning and tried to remain polite even when I see red.Yes - people at these forums make me upset, and angry, but I take God seriously, and what He says seriously - therefore I am not able to sin back at them.I do not want to "earn" your respect, because I am already a valid human being that deserves respect and care and love the same as any other human being, because God made me.

If he thinks that then it's his problem, not mine. He also thinks Allah is the same as Jesus.Unless I can coherently understand what somebody is "selling" me, I am not interested in that heresy. What I say can be found in the bible.As for my attitude, I am sure you think you do phat a service, but infact, I know from experience, as a fellow-Christian, what he is going through, as for many years I battled the legalism of havin to earn God's favour. Yet the scripture says, "all those who seek me find life, and obtain favour from the Lord."I give spiritual advice - you swear at me and get angry because you think I am trying to earn religious points.I am not doing anything other than helping phat to see this from a biblical perspective, and yet as usual, because I am an uncompromising Christian, people jump to all manner of conclusions about me, with ad hominem comments, or atleast allusions, such as "browny points".The truth is, if you take the whole bible as true, as the inspired word of God, then there is a way to approach these problems according to the body-of-Christ (the church). You see, these problems are common for us, and we get through them through listening to very basic teachings about doctrines.People get into stupid muddles because they turn their faith into a big human-muddle.Guilt
Legalism
Fear of hell
fear of sinning.There are many common problems we go through but when you mature you see that it is the mind playing tricks. For God did not come to condemn us, but to save us and to give us life in abundance.

Perhaps someone can take over from here. I don't intend to debate and didn't intend to debate. My main reason was to give my opinions according to my own perceptions of our faith.Thankyou for your posts to me. (This my final comment, no retorts as I will not be coming back to this place again as I see it as a negative place, personally, for my own reasons..) If anyone messages me, use my email, as I am not continuing to argue with people, as the scripture says, to not "be a debater".

Bible study as practiced in the Christian Cult of Ignorance is pretty worthless; actually it is just silly, another example of SOURCE over CONTENT. It is simply an exercise in quote mining and taking stuff out of context. The fact that you can make a little list is a great example of just that.Receiving the "Holy Spirit" is yet another snake oil product.It's up to us to change us, not to expect God to do it for us. God already gave us all the tools needed, and change is not something that happens one time, it is a continuing, never ending process. It is the Great Gift described in Genesis 2&3 (the Christian Cult of Ignorance calls it 'The Fall' and pretends it was not a gift and a charge) when we were given the tools to know good from evil.Nor have I "judged you or said personal things about your character"; so unless you can link to where I did then please stop making such claims.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Paul was a fanatic, but he also evolved over time. He doesn't even touch on the Gospel really, and was far more involved in talking about the mechanics of building the new thing called Christianity and on daily life. Paul had much to say that was worthwhile but you need to take his letters as complete but separate units and not just pull a line here and a line there.He was wrong about lots of things, but also right on many.I'd say the author of the John's Gospel was far more the revisionist.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!