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Author Topic:   The System of Scientific publishing
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 4 of 23 (609135)
03-16-2011 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by slevesque
03-16-2011 3:28 PM


For some reason, my computer doesn't let me read anything published on scribd. The page always loads, and then the pages are all completely blank. Could you hit me up with some highlights?
As to whether there's a problem, yes. The problem is that scientists aren't omniscient, which leads to two problems. When you see people (creationists, for example) chastising scientists, it is for one of two faults --- being excessively credulous, or being excessively skeptical. The people who edit journals are trying to walk a very fine line. No-one wants to be like the guy who published Blondlot's papers about N-rays. But also no-one wants to be like the guy who dismissed Morley's paper on plate tectonics with the comment: "This is the sort of thing that you would talk about at a cocktail party". (No-one knows who that guy was, but his comment ranks way up there with: "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr. Epstein".)
Now, it is impossible for us to know the extent of this problem, because the only reason we know about any specific problem is that scientists have found it and corrected it. We can't point at any specific thing and say: "Look, science failed ..." without also being able to add: "... but then it worked, eventually!" We can't help but have a biased sample.
One thing we can say is that it would be difficult for scientists to adopt as an important truth something which is Just Plain Wrong. Because what it means for an idea to be important in science is that it becomes the basis for further research; and if you build your house upon the sand, you notice when it collapses.
Their errors in the negative direction cannot even be estimated. However, we should bear in mind that science is not monolithic, and that plenty of ideas which turned out to be completely crazy have managed to get a fair hearing.
In the end, though, there is a problem, which is that there is not (and, I think, cannot be) any formal method for accurately deciding when an idea is too silly to be worth considering.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by slevesque, posted 03-16-2011 3:28 PM slevesque has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Taz, posted 03-17-2011 12:27 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 19 of 23 (609384)
03-18-2011 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by slevesque
03-18-2011 3:54 PM


The reality is that in both of those cases, the accident was caused by a mulfunction in the system. What I'm asking is, is the publishing system mulfunctional, or broken ? And should the recommendations made by Trebino be applied ?
Bear in mind that this is a system that scientists are imposing on themselves --- if it was severely flawed, they'd have already fixed it!
The change I'd most like to see is an online repository consisting of all raw data, including stuff that never gets published (this would counter the infamous "file drawer effect"). This is something that scientists can't do for themselves, it would probably require a massive multinational governmental effort.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by slevesque, posted 03-18-2011 3:54 PM slevesque has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 23 of 23 (609659)
03-22-2011 12:12 AM


Nice quote from Daniel Dennett:
Through a microscope, the cutting edge of a beautifully sharpened ax looks like the Rocky Mountains, all jagged and irregular, but it is the dull heft of the steel behind the edge that gives the ax its power. Similarly, the cutting edge of science seen up close looks ragged and chaotic, a bunch of big egos engaging in shouting matches, their judgment distorted by jealousy, ambition and greed, but behind them, agreed upon by all the disputants, is the massive routine weight of accumulated results, the facts that give science its power. Not surprisingly, those who want to puncture the reputation of science and drain off its immense prestige and influence tend to ignore the wide-angle perspective and concentrate on the clashes of schools and their not-so-hidden agendas. But ironically, when they set out to make their case for the prosecution (using all the finely polished tools of logic and statistics), all their good evidence of the failings and biases of science comes from science's own highly vigorous exercises in self-policing and self-correction. The critics have no choice: There is no better source of truth on any topic than well-conducted science, and they know it.

  
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