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Author Topic:   10 Categories of Evidence For ID
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1372 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 43 of 147 (207309)
05-12-2005 4:08 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Percy
05-11-2005 9:22 PM


In this case the user does the selecting himself.
i've heard similar examples alot. the problem is that you're starting with a design in mind to MATCH something to. even the shakespeare generator dawkins had did this. eveolution does not have anything to match itself to, only a set of rules on what it to survive and what is not to survive, and which is to do better than others.
so a better example would programming in a set of basic root words, and checking it against the rules of grammar, and let it try to tell a story. and that would clearly demonstrate how different an evolutionary product is from a designed product. of course, the point wouldn't sound as cool, because the id'ers would still say "yeah but look at how perfect we are!" and we'd have to explain how we're like the evolutionary product next to shakespeare.
This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 05-12-2005 04:09 AM

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Percy, posted 05-11-2005 9:22 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Percy, posted 05-12-2005 10:40 AM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1372 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 73 of 147 (207543)
05-12-2005 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Percy
05-12-2005 10:40 AM


So I completely removed this possibility from my example - the constraints are provdied by the user.
well, no. not completely. you're still matching it to a predetermined design. the word itself is being artifically selected by a master intelligence (the user) who is manipulating the system to create something.
evolution runs on its own, with no user, and no pre-design to match to.
Also, you say this as if it were different in principle from what happens in nature. It isn't. Just as nature provides constraints in the form of temperature, weather, water supply, food supply, predators and so forth, the program provides constraints, too. These constraints are what provides selection, which is one of the two key components of evolution: descent and with modification and natural selection.
well, that's not what i have issue with. i have issue with the pre-conception and matching process, and that it doesn't run on its own.
Following the rules of grammar isn't going to produce a story, or even very many rational sentences. I can see a lot of sentences like, "The tinted cognition drove to the rusty iota."
and evolution does not produce perfect organisms, either.
What would be your selection mechanism for choosing the "winners" in each generation?
evolution rarely choose winners. it just chooses LOSERS. so to duplicate the model, all you'd really have to do is throw all of the ones that are unfit according to grammatical rules and parts of speech.
if you want to throw in actual selection, then we could add a user or users in, to vote for their favourites.
and as someone pointed out, darwinian poetry works quite well.

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