The Power of Belief

You now seem to be talking about the idea that if we don't believe something is possible then we may not even bother taking the actions that will lead to finding out whether it is genuinely physically achievable or not.But when you started out in this thread you seemed to be suggesting that simply believing something could alter physical reality to make it possible.These are two different things.If perpetual motion (for example) is a genuine physical impossibility then no amount of self belief is going to allow me to invent a perpetual motion machine. But if perpetual motion is physically possible (i.e. the laws of physics as we understand them are wrong) then we are unlikely to invent a perpetual motion machine unless there is somebody out there who believes it to be possible and who is willing to pursue this belief despite the widespread derision of their peers.My question to you is this - In terms of self-belief how do we distinguish between the delusional cranks pursuing subjective nonsense and insightful individuals who are ahead of their time?Because conviction alone (i.e. the power of belief) isn't enough to make this distinction is it?

And this is where I think you are going wrong. Or at least conflating terminology. Positive thinking cannot cause miracles. Belief cannot make that which is impossible possible.However if all you are saying is that for humans to achieve things which are physically possible but difficult for humans to achieve a certain rather focused state of mind is required - Then I guess there isn't much to disagree about.I just think you are making this sound more mystical and impressive than it really is. Is believing that you can run a mile in 3:40 in the same category as believing that you can run a mile in under a second? What is it that qualifies something to be categorised in the way you are talking about here?

Is believing that you can run a mile in 3:40 in the same category as believing that you can run a mile in under a second? What is it that qualifies something to be categorised in the way you are talking about here? It is a factor in as to whether something will happen or not in the same way that desire or fear or arrogance or embarrassment or stupidity, or indeed any other human state of mind, is a factor. It is not a factor in the same way that the laws of physics are a factor as to whether something is inherently achievable or not. So - again - I think you are conflating different concepts of what it means for something to be "possible". A "force of nature".....? It is this sort of language along with notions of "making the impossible possible" that suggests you are elevating belief into some form of mind-over-matter magical mysticism. My desire to avoid sitting in traffic combined with my belief that the bus will be stuck in traffic causes me to cycle to work. Without this belief I wouldn't have cycled to work today. Has my desire to avoid sitting on a bus in a traffic jam combined with this belief "made the impossible possible"...? Would you describe my belief in buses getting stuck in traffic as a "force of nature" that "shapes my reality"...?My son believes in Santa Claus. This causes him to leave a mince pie and glass of wine for Santa and a carrot for the reindeers on Christmas eve. Has his belief "made the impossible possible"...? Would you describe his belief that Rudolf will enjoy the carrot he has left as a "force of nature" that "shapes his reality"...?It all sounds so powerful when you start talking about "the power of belief" but the fact is all human activity (most of which is rather trivial) is based on what we believe to be true. Everything we consciously do is based on some sort of belief isn't it?So what exactly is it you are highlighting as "special" here? I guess my point is that if you dress it up in certain language you can make any human activity sound like it is derived from "the power of belief". Because humans act on what they believe to be true all the time. I would say fear was the primary factor here. When people collectively act out of fear or desperation or anything else they are capable of both great and stupid things. Because it manipulates people's behaviour in a direction determined by someone else. Humans can achieve things which I think we would both agree are non-trivial. But are these things any more dictated by the human state of mind you are calling "belief" than many of the rather hum-drum things we all do on a daily basis?If you are simply saying humans constantly act on their beliefs and humans are sometimes capable of non-trivial things - Then I guess I agree.But I'm not sure this warrants the sort of mystical sounding hype you are giving it. You could just as easily talk about the power of sex or the power of greed or the power of love or the power of any other state of mind that drives people to do the things they do.