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Author Topic:   faith based science?
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 171 (676893)
10-25-2012 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Alfred Maddenstein
10-25-2012 3:36 PM


That's not good enough, Vatican.

Good enough for what? Its good enough for my acceptance of the Big Band not being based on faith.

Bill Gaede is as rational as it gets.

Oh, yeah, getting deported for being a spy was totally rational

Read on. Don't be shy. You might learn a thing or two.

Why don't you present some of the best evidence from it rather than just pointing me in its general direction?

And I still don't know what motivates you to want to eliminate scientific knowledge. Please explain that for me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-25-2012 3:36 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-27-2012 1:36 PM New Cat's Eye has taken no action

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3205 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 77 of 171 (676894)
10-25-2012 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Dr Adequate
10-25-2012 3:30 PM


Unlike, you, Inadequate, Einstein might have loved the site. He loved good humour and would have enjoyed discussing mathematics with Bill as much as the feline does.
Bill got a different approach. He assumes no observers and inside that framework his is a good model. I do not discard the observer so time as an alternative measure of static distance is still used without re-ifying that concept into arrows and stuff.
Otherwise, Albert had no time for big bunks, singularities and the rest of the articles of your faith. If you are not aware of that.

This message is a reply to:
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vimesey
Member
Posts: 1309
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 78 of 171 (676897)
10-25-2012 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Dr Adequate
10-25-2012 3:30 PM


Not only has he got the T-shirt - I believe he has grown the warts, built the bridge, and bought the three billy goats gruff.

This message is a reply to:
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AdminModulous
Administrator (Idle past 1342 days)
Posts: 897
Joined: 03-02-2006


Message 79 of 171 (676899)
10-25-2012 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by vimesey
10-25-2012 3:59 PM


24 hours
This clearly is not on topic, even remotely. It merits a short suspension

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Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3205 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 80 of 171 (677160)
10-27-2012 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by New Cat's Eye
10-25-2012 3:54 PM


Vatican, what Bill's adventures got to do with rationality of his analysis and explanations? Irrelevant. You are just interested not in science but a good reputation and consensus only.
You asked for a good alternative to particles and waves and the cat directed you to the best one to date he is aware of.
By the way waves are not totally discarded in the hypothesis. Maxwell's wave is given the physical medium in it. With real architecture of a double-helix thread. Space-time is not such a medium. It is a map of motion. Bill discards the idea of space-time altogether, the cat dumps only its re-ification into a medium of motion.

Map-making as such is not going to be abandoned. Humans are measuring animals and they will not stop to try and measure the cosmos. Poor distorted maps currently used need to be thoroughly corrected. Warping, dilating and expanding are but metaphors and everybody but the gullible public knows that. It's all descriptions of trajectories and measurements. Space and time as such have no physical properties whatsoever.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 493 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 81 of 171 (677188)
10-27-2012 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Alfred Maddenstein
10-27-2012 1:36 PM


Space and time as such have no physical properties whatsoever.

How do you explain the phenomenon referred to as gravitational lensing without resorting to relativistic curvature of space?


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-27-2012 1:36 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Omnivorous, posted 10-27-2012 8:05 PM subbie has seen this message
 Message 83 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-27-2012 8:20 PM subbie has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3851
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 82 of 171 (677190)
10-27-2012 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by subbie
10-27-2012 7:56 PM


subbie writes:

AM writes:

Space and time as such have no physical properties whatsoever.

How do you explain the phenomenon referred to as gravitational lensing without resorting to relativistic curvature of space?

With his hands.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3205 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 83 of 171 (677195)
10-27-2012 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by subbie
10-27-2012 7:56 PM


That is curvature of a light signal's path, Sub. Invoking curved space explains nothing. It's a tautology, not an explanation. Space is a geometrical abstraction. A relation. If you don't believe me, take a meter of distance, go with the meter to the bathroom and try to curve it. Send the curved meter to the feline for inspection by the morning post. Call the press with cameras to record the occurrence first. Don't forget to fix the curve before packing lest it straightens back in the post. Don't use the Royal Mail. TNT or UPS would do the job better.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by subbie, posted 10-27-2012 7:56 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by subbie, posted 10-27-2012 9:26 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 493 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 84 of 171 (677211)
10-27-2012 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Alfred Maddenstein
10-27-2012 8:20 PM


What causes the light's path to curve, if not curvature in space?

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-27-2012 8:20 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-28-2012 2:09 AM subbie has replied
 Message 86 by NoNukes, posted 10-28-2012 2:11 AM subbie has seen this message

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3205 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 85 of 171 (677219)
10-28-2012 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by subbie
10-27-2012 9:26 PM


Curvy motions
Try this, Sub, and see how your faith is doing:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7e39D-tVag

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by subbie, posted 10-27-2012 9:26 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 171 (677220)
10-28-2012 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by subbie
10-27-2012 9:26 PM


What causes the light's path to curve, if not curvature in space?

It is space-time that is curved by matter, energy, momentum, and pressure/stress.

Edited by NoNukes, : omitted part of tensr


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by subbie, posted 10-27-2012 9:26 PM subbie has seen this message

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subbie
Member (Idle past 493 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 87 of 171 (677235)
10-28-2012 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Alfred Maddenstein
10-28-2012 2:09 AM


Re: Curvy motions
Sorry, we don't debate by link here. Make the argument yourself or don't bother.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-28-2012 2:09 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by NoNukes, posted 10-28-2012 11:54 AM subbie has seen this message
 Message 89 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-28-2012 7:38 PM subbie has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 88 of 171 (677238)
10-28-2012 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by subbie
10-28-2012 11:20 AM


Re: Curvy motions
I looked at a bit of the video. Bill claims that the particle theory of light did not explain any physical phenomena. How about black body radiation and the photoelectric effect (the explanation of the latter winning Einstein the Nobel Prize)

Next he makes a grammar based attack on Einstein's theory.

In other words, don't bother unless you want some insight into the types of arguments appeal to poster Maddenstein.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by subbie, posted 10-28-2012 11:20 AM subbie has seen this message

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3205 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 89 of 171 (677270)
10-28-2012 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by subbie
10-28-2012 11:20 AM


Re: Curvy motions
No, Sub. The faith based claim is yours, not mine. You should try it on Jefferson in your signature. Suggest to Jefferson that space or space-time, as Nukie's correction goes, is a causal agent of interaction with physical objects and see Tom's reaction.
It is you who needs arguments to support such an unintelligible proposition in any literal sense. Remember metaphors cannot be causes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by subbie, posted 10-28-2012 11:20 AM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 493 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 90 of 171 (677271)
10-28-2012 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Alfred Maddenstein
10-28-2012 7:38 PM


Re: Curvy motions
I asked one simple question. How do you explain the phenomenon of gravitational lensing? Refrain from your usual diarrhea of the mouth, if you can, and answer that one question.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-28-2012 7:38 PM Alfred Maddenstein has taken no action

  
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