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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Faith and Belief ⇒

Where is the point?

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GDR
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From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
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Message 16 of 45 (678803)
11-10-2012 4:38 PM 		Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
11-10-2012 4:04 PM

Re: Pointless
Great to see you back Faith.
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
​
Micah 6:8
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 Message 13 by Faith, posted 11-10-2012 4:04 PM Faith has not replied
  
GDR
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From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
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Message 20 of 45 (679036)
11-11-2012 11:18 PM 		Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
11-10-2012 4:04 PM

Re: Pointless
Faith writes:
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About the "meaning of life," which is what you're asking about, the line from the hymn "Oh Holy Night" has always said it for me and it can still make me cry: "Then He appeared and the soul knew its worth." The soul knew its worth. If all we are is chemicals thrown up by mindless mechanical laws how can we have any worth? All the productive or pleasurable things we do, good deeds or whatever, give us no worth if we're just going to return to dust at the end of it all. That's what the question is about, isn't it? But now I know that the human soul has worth. All human souls. I wish all of you knew that.
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I think that is well put but I don't think it goes far enough. I believe it isn't just about our soul. The Biblical narrative ends with the renewal of this world and Heaven and Earth becoming one. We aren't told how but in some way humans are God's agents in preparation for and in anticipation of that time.
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The point then is that it all matters, and not just what we do with our lives but what we do with our planet as they are both part of a renewed and eternal existence.
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
​
Micah 6:8
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 Message 13 by Faith, posted 11-10-2012 4:04 PM Faith has replied
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 Message 29 by Faith, posted 11-12-2012 3:53 PM GDR has not replied
  
GDR
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From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.3

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Message 32 of 45 (679173)
11-12-2012 7:31 PM 		Reply to: Message 1 by Dogmafood
11-09-2012 12:07 AM

Dogmafood writes:
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What is your answer to the absurdity of life? What guides your compass and where do you spend your time?
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In reading through the various responses it seems to me that we have to differentiate between the meaning for our lives as individuals and for the meaning of life collectively and ultimately.
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Sure I find meaning in life by having kids and raising them along with other facets of life, and we all have different ideas on how to get the most out of life. I also think that what we do does matter ultimately but the is part of my Christianity. I suppose that the atheistic POV would be that there is no ultimate meaning and that what matters is essentially the here and now and the impact that might have on the near future. I'd be interested to know if you atheists would agree with that.
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
​
Micah 6:8
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 Message 33 by Rahvin, posted 11-12-2012 7:41 PM GDR has replied
  
GDR
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Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
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Message 34 of 45 (679179)
11-12-2012 7:52 PM 		Reply to: Message 33 by Rahvin
11-12-2012 7:41 PM

Rahvin writes:
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What we do matters because our actions affect other people, both our contemporaries and our descendants.
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More, this is the only life we have - we don't get some magic reset button for a new life after death. We can't wait for heaven, because it will never come. The world is how we choose to make it, collectively, and whether we make it a paradise or a hell is up to all of us.
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To make a movie reference: "God doesn't make the world this way. We do."
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There's no metaphysical reason for anything...but people have value, and improving the lives of people is a worthy goal without the empty promise of heaven.
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OK but from a Christian perspective I don't understand the goal to be heaven. I agree with your goal but I believe that your goal in life in some way is a foreshadowing of, and a part of, a renewal of this world as opposed to leaving this world behind for some spiritual existence elsewhere whatever that might mean.
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
​
Micah 6:8
This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Rahvin, posted 11-12-2012 7:41 PM Rahvin has replied
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 Message 35 by Rahvin, posted 11-12-2012 8:00 PM GDR has replied
  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.3

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Message 37 of 45 (679230)
11-13-2012 12:22 AM 		Reply to: Message 35 by Rahvin
11-12-2012 8:00 PM

Rahvin writes:
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I emphasized heaven only in pointing out that I feel that an atheistic perspective with no afterlife provides a firmer foundation for working to improve the world - it's not okay to just give up and hope the afterlife will be better, because this is all we have.
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I see your point but as a Christian I believe that I have a very firm foundation for wanting to improve this world because unlike the atheist who has to believe that at some point in the future this world will cease to exist, (even if it's only when the sun burns out), I believe that this world in a renewed form is eternal.
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Rahvin writes:
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And frankly, I don't care what metaphysical belief you attach to what I think is important in life (clearly I disagree) - but I'm always happy when others agree that improving this world is a worthy goal, and I think that's far more significant than whatever else we use to dress it up.
​
Amen
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
​
Micah 6:8
This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Rahvin, posted 11-12-2012 8:00 PM Rahvin has not replied
  
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