Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,913 Year: 4,170/9,624 Month: 1,041/974 Week: 368/286 Day: 11/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Creation According to Genesis: One Account or Two?
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 73 of 98 (757064)
05-02-2015 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Jon
04-25-2015 9:41 AM


Creation of animals
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
Okay, so let's start with an easy one. In the first story God makes all the animals first (over two separate days) and then makes man and woman together afterwards. In the second story YHWH the bumbling idiot makes man, can't figure out what companion he would prefer and is thus prompted to create and introduce to him every creature on earth; realizing that man wants nothing to do with puppy dogs and armadillos, he makes woman as a companion.
First Account:Second Account:
God creates all the animals
(Gen 1:20—25)
God creates Man
(Gen 1:27)
YHWH creates Man
(Gen 2:7)
YHWH creates all the animals
(Gen 2:19—20)
God creates Woman
(Gen 1:27)
YHWH creates Woman
(Gen 2:21—22)
That's only one of the contradictions. After having our say on this one, we can move on to others.
Jon let me make some statements to begin with.
I believe in a literal interpretation of the Hebrew text.
I believe there are two different stories in Genesis chapter 1 and 2.
I believe in a literal 3 creation events in the 2 chapters.
The first creation event was in Genesis 1:1 and many things took place and began to exist in that day. Day meaning light period as defined by God in Genesis 1:5, when He called the light day.
The second creation event took place in Genesis 1:21 when God created the sea creature to swallow Jonah.
The third creation event took place in Genesis 1:27 when God created mankind male and female.
The story in chapter 1 verse 2 through chapter 2 verse 3 is not connected to verse 1.
Genesis 2:4 says:
quote:
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Since I believe in a literal translation the events that follow this verse must take place in the same day the heavens and the earth began to exist.
Under your first account you have God creating all the animals.
That is incorrect as He only created a specific creature. Everything else was called forth in the verses you mentioned from the water.
Notice in 1:21 the winged fowl was called forth from the water.
In Genesis 2:19 the fowl of the air was formed from the the ground.
On the next day (sixth day) God called forth a lot of creatures from the from the earth after their kind.
Why did you separate man and woman being created under your first account?
God created mankind male and female in Genesis 1:27.
Under account 2 you have man created which the text nowhere says he was created. It says he was formed from the dust of the ground.
This man was formed from the dust of the ground and became a living being before any other life form was formed.
Under account 2 you have animals created which the text nowhere says they were created. It says they were formed out of the ground.
The animals and fowl as well as many other creatures was formed from the ground. Genesis 2:19.
Under account 2 you have YHWH creating woman in Genesis 2:21-22. The text nowhere says the woman was created. It says YHWH took a rib from man and formed (cloned) a woman from that rib.
So actually you have not presented a contradiction. You have only presented evidence that Genesis chapter 1 and chapter 2 are two different stories of 2 completely different events taking place.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Jon, posted 04-25-2015 9:41 AM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 76 of 98 (757095)
05-03-2015 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by NoNukes
05-02-2015 1:11 PM


Re: The Pluperfect in 2:8?
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes:
If the language does not contain a way to indicate the pluperfect, then it is not reasonable to assume that you can tell when using the pluperfect in a translation is incorrect.
Biblical Hebrew had no verb of tense.
All verbs in Biblical Hebrew are verbs of action, either perfect (completed action) or imperfect (on going action).
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by NoNukes, posted 05-02-2015 1:11 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Jon, posted 05-03-2015 10:22 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 94 of 98 (757445)
05-08-2015 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by kbertsche
05-04-2015 12:27 PM


Re: The Pluperfect in 2:8?
Hi Kbertche,
Kbertche writes:
Hebrew grammars normally say that Biblical Hebrew has two tenses, perfect and imperfect, but that these have nothing to do with time. They denote only aspect (complete or incomplete), not time. It may be more accurate for grammarians to use the term "perfective" instead of "perfect", but all of the old grammars use the term "perfect" and most modern ones follow suit.
I just love the way a lot of people try to take a dead language and make it into modern Hebrew or Modern English by using terms that only apply to those languages.
Biblical Hebrew verbs had no tenses. They are verbs of action.
There are only two kinds of verbs in Biblical Hebrew.
There is the perfect verb which is completed action.
There is the imperfect verb which is ongoing action.
These two verbs can appear in any of 7 different stems.
But 70% of all verbs in Biblical Hebrew are in the Qal stem. Which is simple action, active voice.
There is no such thing as a Pluperfect verb in Biblical Hebrew.
It does not make any difference what you or I think about it or anyone else, facts are facts.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by kbertsche, posted 05-04-2015 12:27 PM kbertsche has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by NoNukes, posted 05-09-2015 2:22 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 96 by arachnophilia, posted 09-09-2015 11:50 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024