Jimmy Carter

You and I lived through Jimmy Carter. He's a good man, possibly even a great man. He wasn't a very good president.--Percy

If Reagan was the Teflon president then Carter was the flypaper president. Everything he touched turned to dross and he got the blame, plus bad things just seemed to happen on his watch. You already mentioned the Iran hostage crisis, not his fault, but the Desert One debacle was a mission *he* approved. There was also the gas shortage with incredible lines at the pumps and unreal (for then) gas prices, plus inflation was up way above 10% and mortgage interest rates above 15%.Then there was his wimpy approach to problem solving, like sitting in a sweater and announcing a crisis of confidence. Even his calls to action came off poorly, like declaring the Moral Equivalent of War with it's lack of teeth and unfortunate acronym. Praising him for not sharing Republican lunacy damns him with faint praise.He *was* very unlucky, but great leaders make their own luck.--Percy

[cynicism]Yeah, I know, but it didn't bring peace. The Nobel Peace Prize has been awarded for efforts to bring about peace in the Middle East in 1978, 1994, 2002 (in part) and 2009 (in part). Like fusion power, peace in the Middle East is a dream of the future and always will be. It will continue to generate Nobel Peace Prizes for generations to come.[/cynicism]--PercyEdited by Percy, : Grammar.

That's how much politics is conducted these days, find the worst things to say about one guy, the best things to say about another, and never mind accuracy and context. There are no meaningful conclusions to be drawn from stuff like this.I think people have been very fair to Carter in this thread. He was a man who as president met problems like the energy crisis, stagflation and the Iran hostage crisis with timidity and malaise. Agree with his policies or not, Reagan met problems energetically, forthrightly and head on. One was a leader, one wasn't but later became a great and distinguished humanitarian.--Percy

Uh, no, but I think you're misinterpreting my message. To clarify, I had said that "bad things just seemed to happen on his watch," and then I enumerated some of them, like long gas lines. It's just a fact, something that happened while Carter was president. Well, that must be a relief to Ford that it was all Nixon's fault.Again, I think you're mistaking my message. Stagflation was just another bad thing that happened during the Carter administration.I don't know why you launched into a Democrats versus Republican comparison. I didn't say anything for or against either one, and I don't think that's what this thread is about. Some people like yourself can view Carter as "one of the best presidents we've ever had," but I don't think most people see him that way. He was a man who became president and found the job too big for him. He only found his true calling later.--PercyEdited by Percy, : Grammar.

Why do you want to debate Reagan versus Carter? Between you and Rrhain I feel like I'm walking into the middle of a play. Is there some ongoing Internet debate out there where people rehash all the best and worst of their administrations?I said what I had to say. Carter was a poor leader compared to Reagan, but he later came into his own and became a great humanitarian. That thing you posted from Facebook is just another example of the same tired political and misleading trashing there's already too much of - it doesn't matter who it was about, that kind of approach is always dismaying, to say the least.I can see now that some of you out there believe Carter was a great president and an inspiring leader, but though I don't share that opinion it doesn't seem anything worth arguing about.--PercyEdited by Percy, : Grammar.

Clearly you and many others think very highly of Jimmy Carter's presidency, but I think the Wikipedia section on Carter's public image and legacy is a pretty fair assessment, and it's pretty much in line with my own opinion.--Percy

No, I didn't buy the narrative. Like you, I lived the Carter presidency. I bought a house during the Carter presidency and paid over 13% mortgage interest. I think you've "bought the narrative."I have a very high opinion of Carter and have said some very positive things about him. I just don't think he was a very good president. I have a lower overall opinion of Reagan, particularly his science knowledge and his economics, but I do think he was a better president, particularly his first term, though he did have some particularly strong moments in foreign policy during his second term.Leadership, which I judge an essential quality of a great president, is an inherent quality, not the sum of policy positions, economic statistics and foreign policy decisions. I'm reminded of Achilles quarrel with Agamemnon when he laments that Agamemnon is leader of the Greeks only because he possesses an aura of leadership that Achilles lacks. Leadership isn't something tangible, but it has important positive effects. Reagan had it, Carter didn't, and it made a big difference in their presidencies.--Percy

Anyone with any objectivity knows that every presidency contains positives and negatives. For some reason you and Rrhain and RAZD seem to be just itching for an argument with anyone who dares say anything negative about Carter or positive about Reagan. I earlier referenced the Wikipedia section on Carter's public image and legacy, so now let me reference the Wikipedia section on Reagan's legacy. It, too, pretty much reflects my own opinion, even echoing some things I said earlier.Carter is not my guy, and Reagan is not my guy. I don't have a guy. Since the beginning of time political people have believed that their guy is a great statesman and the other guy a horrible beast. These people are always with us, never realizing that there are no real devils or angels out there and that seeing the world in black and white is part of the problem.--Percy

No, not really. I pretty much meant what I wrote, not what you're saying. What I actually said was that Carter wasn't a very good president, and that Reagan was a better president. Of course I could be wrong. I didn't post links to Wikipedia to prove I was right. But you guys have been been treating my opinion like it was an outlier, so I posted those links to show that my opinion is so widely shared that it's very similar to the ones at Wikipedia. If you're offended by being described as seeing the world in terms of black and white then don't act that way by making extreme claims and extremely biased statements (e.g., "So there were big positives to Reagan's presidency that I missed? Pray tell.", et al.), and don't characterize mainstream views as outliers.Reagan is not my guy, but to you guys he does seem to serve as a lightning rod for anyone who mentions him in anything other than an unflattering light. All I'm doing is refusing to see Carter and Reagan as either all good or all bad, but you guys don't seem to like that at all.--Percy

Oh, good grief. Will you cite Hitler next? Godwin would be proud.Look, if you have a substantive response to something I said then please proceed, by all means, but this is just more silly posturing. What is so hard to understand that I'm neither a rabid Carterite nor a rabid Reaganite. I could go to a conservative site and as easily get beat up for not being enthusiastic enough about Reagan. I'm in the middle between you polar opposites, and there's nothing particularly strange or unusual or difficult to understand about that.--Percy

And how did people feel about his powers of leadership and where he had led us in the fall of 1980? As I recall, the networks had already called the election by 8 PM Eastern Time: Look, you guys like Carter, I get it. But it's not like there's not ample evidence out there that he made somewhat of a hash of his presidency. It makes no sense to treat people who lived the Carter years and haven't forgotten like they're crazy.--Percy

That would be the "Some of us are more discerning than others of us" argument. Agreed. I would over-simplify even further. They both led in good and bad directions, one more effectively than the other. Earlier someone blamed the GOP for Carter's ineffectiveness, but remember Tip O'Neil throwing up his hands in frustration as his Democratic house passed Reagan legislation? It's called leadership.--PercyEdited by Percy, : Grammar.

Is it not obvious to you guys how blatantly biased you're being? Being able to say only good or only bad about someone is as certain a sign of bias as there can be. When it comes to Carter/Reagan you guys have no objectivity.I see Dronester has replied. He appears to be as ardent an anti-Carterite as you guys are anti-Reaganites. Maybe now you guys will get the ugly argument you've been itching for. Be careful what you wish for. As you're fond of saying, enjoy.--Percy

Sorry, I didn't recall your post from last week.--Percy