The Problems with Evolution - Cambrian Explosion

That's not parasitism, though. That's commensalism.

You'll have to explain the difference to me.....In any case, maybe this is an econiche that can't be filled by multicellular life.......but that doesn't change the fact that there are niches filled by multicellular life that can't be filled by single celled life, such as apex predator. If it wasn't so, there wouldn't be multicelled life.You've still yet to demonstrate that 80% of the ecological niches in existance, like you claim, can only be filled by single celled life forms. And, until you do, your explaination for the CE is invalid.

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"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes agoI think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought"I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets...I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." The Nicene CreedWinner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award

Of course, there's no consensus at all about what constitutes an "apex predator", especially because any purported apex organisms are still subject to predation, themselves.On the other hand, there are very easily defined regions of the world where only unicellular life lives. But anywhere you find multicellular life, you find unicellular life doing the same thing. 80%? Where did that come from?This message has been edited by crashfrog, 11-06-2004 07:03 PM

I do believe that was the number you gave earlier...........in any case, for your explanation of the CE to be correct, you have to prove that the vast majority of eco niches exist at the cellular level.

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"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes agoI think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought"I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets...I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." The Nicene CreedWinner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award

No.... That has nothing at all to do with my explanation.

Is your explanation for the CE not that single celled life had to evolve to fit into all the single celled eco niches before evolving into multi-celled life, and that this took much longer than the evolution of multi-celled life because there are many more eco niches to be filled at that level?

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"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes agoI think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought"I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets...I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." The Nicene CreedWinner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award

No, not in the least. Wherever did you get such a ridiculous idea?

Don't play dumb, Crash........that's EXACTLY what you were getting at. You're just pretending it wasn't because I've invalidated that theory.If that wasn't what you were getting at, why'd you even bring it up? Because it's off-topic, otherwise.In fact, not only should life's evolution not SPEED UP at the mutli-cellular level, but it shoulds SLOW DOWN......as multi-celled life doesn't reproduce as quickly as single-celled life, and the more complex the system, the greater odds of it mutating in a harmful way.

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"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes agoI think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought"I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets...I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." The Nicene CreedWinner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award

That's never been my point. I challenge you to find any statement of mine where I've tried to make that point. You're the one that brought up niches, not me. That's what I've been trying to tell you this whole time. The widest variety of organisms are found at the unicellular level. There's just not as much difference among multicellular organisms as there is among unicellular ones. If you had been paying any attention whatsoever, you would have understood that 20 posts ago.Instead, you've railed against your own strawmen. Congratulations, I guess. I see why you have such a problem with evidentiary discussion; it's simply beyond your meager capabilities.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.......of course creatures that can multiply a billion times over on a space the size of my finger tips and that have been around for 3 billion years longer than multi-celled life are going to have greater variety. That doesn't even BEGIN to explain WHY they had that extra 3 billion year jump on us.

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"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes agoI think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought"I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets...I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." The Nicene CreedWinner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award

I agree. There are a number of suggestions as to why that is.One is that the oxygen content of the atmosphere had to reach a certain level before multicellular life could work out.The other is that there was no selective pressure to become multicellular. There is a speculation that 'snowball earth' supplied that pressure since multicellular life arose around the 600 Myr BP that that occured.The jump to multicellular is the interesting question. The Cambrian "explosion" some 10's of millions of years later is not really all that mysterious anymore.This message has been edited by NosyNed, 11-06-2004 08:13 PM

The first multi-celled life was plant life, which doesn't require oxygen, correct?And I don't understand the snowball earth reference.

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"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes agoI think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought"I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets...I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." The Nicene CreedWinner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award

So think, Jason. Put it together.The reason that the Cambrian Explosion is no problem for evolution is because it isn't an explosion at all - there was no fundamental change in the rate of new variation after or during the CE than before. This question doesn't even make sense. It's like asking why your great-grandfather has an 80-year "jump" on you.

why? it is a matter of perspective, n'est pas? perhaps there is a little "mammal bias" there? the next question is which kills more gazelles, lions or amoebae? wouldn't that make a difference?of course it gets muddled when the lions kill the weak and sick gazelles, so that those infected by the amoeba are more likely to be eaten by lions as well ...

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

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Isn't 50 million years BY DEFINITION a geological instant?

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Depends on what you are talking about. For many geological processes this is an incredibly long time. To a Precambrian geologist it is perhaps short, but by no means an instant. For instance, we often resolve radiometric dates to less than 50 my accuracy.The real question is, "Isn't 50 million years BY DEFINITION impossible in a YEC scenario?"