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Author | Topic: Cosmology 101 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Force Inactive Member |
cavediver,
I have seen pictures like those before. Are those pictures of our universe? Edited by Force, : edit Thanks
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Force Inactive Member |
agobot,
agobot writes:
The strentgh of the fundamental forces in the universe(force of gravity, speed of light, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, proton mass, etc.) is so finely tuned(to support life?), that the only good explanation for the existence of these finely tuned conditions besides god, would be a multiverse and multiple big bangs giving rise to multiple universes.
Not true. What if a God(higher being) is up there causing these things to happen in a way that allows life to be supported. LOL. Thanks
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3672 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
Yes, they are. But not photographs of visible light - instead, they are of the the Cosmic Background Microwave Radiation. The horizontal band visible in all three images is the Milky Way Galaxy, unavoidably contaminating the picture of the rest of the Universe, as we're stuck within it.
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Son Goku Inactive Member |
Yes, that is a real picture of our universe at higher frequency of electromagnetic radiation. It is what the universe looks like at such frequencies.
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 7.4 |
The strentgh of the fundamental forces in the universe(force of gravity, speed of light, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, proton mass, etc.) is so finely tuned(to support life?), that the only good explanation for the existence of these finely tuned conditions besides god, would be a multiverse and multiple big bangs giving rise to multiple universes. I'm sorry, that's completely untrue. There is no "fine tuning" for life. Such a premise requires that life be a "goal," and there is no evidence whatsoever of that being the case. If the fundamental forces were "tuned" differently, the Unvierse as we know it would exist in a compeltely different form. Such a Universe may support some form of life, simply not one recognizeable to us. It's also possible that the fundamental forces are constant in all universes, or that no other universes exist at all. You seem to derive your argument from the idea that there is a "1:x chance" of the fundamental forces being "tuned" to life as we know it, and that this infinitely small chance requires either divine guidance or multiple iterations to generate the observed result. Ask yourself this, then: in the lottery, a random number is drawn, and someone wins. Is it necessarily true that multiple drawings (universes) will be required before someone has a winning number (life-compatible fundamental forces)? Of course not - there are many instances of individuals winning on a single drawing, without the prize needing to be carried over to the next drawing. There is also no "intelligence" guiding this process, and no "goal." Similarly, it is not necessarily true that multiple universes exist in order for our Universe to have fundamental forces compatible with life as we know it. It's possible in the speculative sense that other universes may exist, but there is insufficient data to make any real statements. Neither is a "divine creator" necessary - our Universe exists, and there is no evidence of any such "creator" having been involved. We have exactly one example of a Universe to study, and all we know is that this Universe has conditions compatible with our form of life. This may be the case in all Universes, may be uncommon or unique, or ours could be the only Unvierse that exists - we simply do not know, and so your statement is essentially a bare assertion drawn from your own speculation, not data. You need to realize that the form of life we see is not necessarily the only possible form of life that can possibly exist, that life in some other form may be able to exist in a universe with different laws of physics from ours, and that life is not a "goal" of the Universe at all anyway - if conditions are favorable, life may arise. If they are not favorable, life will likely not arise. It just so happens that our Universe has properties that are at least somewhat favorable to our form of life. If our Universe had different properties, perhaps we would exist in a completely different form, or not at all - the Universe, being a non-intelligent entity, could quite literally not care less.
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Force Inactive Member |
Taz,
Taz writes: Because everywhere we look things are accelerating away from us. Red-shift and CMBR are also evidence of an explosion over an expansion. Edited by Force, : edit Edited by Force, : edit Thanks
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Alasdair Member (Idle past 5778 days) Posts: 143 Joined: |
"How peculiar", thought the puddle. "This hole I am in is perfectly shaped to hold me. Obviously it was specially designed for me and only me to fit inside of it"
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5558 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
Alasdair writes: "How peculiar", thought the puddle. "This hole I am in is perfectly shaped to hold me. Obviously it was specially designed for me and only me to fit inside of it" That's not even funny. What would you think if you saw a perfectly shaped pentagon puddle? How many puddles will it take till you get the perfect pentagon shape? If it's so easy to win the lottery, why is none of you a lottery winner yet? Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
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Force Inactive Member |
Agobot,
Alasdair to Agobot writes: "How peculiar", thought the puddle. "This hole I am in is perfectly shaped to hold me. Obviously it was specially designed for me and only me to fit inside of it" Agobot to Alasdair writes: That's not even funny. What would you think if you saw a perfectly shaped pentagon puddle? I would think: "how did this get here and is that water ment to be there" Just because it is shaped like a pentagon does not mean that it has a purpose.
Agobot writes: If it's so easy to win the lottery, why is none of you a lottery winner yet? The point was that winning the lottery is a random phenomena but yet people still win.
Agobot writes: How many puddles will it take till you get the perfect pentagon shape? Your point is that it could not have evolved. How is that relevant? What if I am playing baseball, and the pitcher pitched the ball, and I hit the ball with the bat, and it just happens to go directly through a pentagon. Would that have a purpose? Better yet. If you look at alasdair last post it was at the exact same time and date I posted. Is there a purpose for that? That is very random.... Edited by Force, : edit - off topic wups.. Edited by Force, : edit Edited by Force, : edit Edited by Force, : edit Edited by Force, : edit Edited by Force, : not really off topic.. nevermind...sorry... Edited by Force, : No reason given. Edited by Force, : edit Edited by Force, : edit Edited by Force, : EDIT Edited by Force, : EDIT Edited by Force, : edit Thanks
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Alasdair Member (Idle past 5778 days) Posts: 143 Joined: |
I don't think you quite understood what I was saying, try again!
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Force Inactive Member |
Greetings,
So what is out there that supports cosmic inflation? I realize we have cosmic red-shift but is there anything else? Also, why cosmic inflation over bulk explosion? Edited by Force, : edit Thanks |
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Force Inactive Member |
Cavediver,
the milkyway galaxy is our galaxy. Milky Way - Wikipedia Edited by Force, : edit Edited by Force, : edit - i just wanted to state that for the thread... LOL ... Thanks
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5558 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
Agobot writes: That's not even funny. What would you think if you saw a perfectly shaped pentagon puddle? How many puddles will it take till you get the perfect pentagon shape? If it's so easy to win the lottery, why is none of you a lottery winner yet? Force writes: Your point is that it could not have evolved. How is that relevant? What if I am playing baseball, and the pitcher pitched the ball, and I hit the ball with the bat, and it just happens to go directly through a pentagon. Would that have a purpose? Better yet. If you look at alasdair last post it was at the exact same time and date I posted. Is there a purpose for that? That is very random.... Where did I say anything about evolving? Where did I say anything about a purpose? What are you talking about? Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
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Force Inactive Member |
agobot,
agobot writes: How many puddles will it take till you get the perfect pentagon shape? http://EvC Forum: Cosmology 101 -->EvC Forum: Cosmology 101 What was the point? Edited by Force, : No reason given. Thanks
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5558 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
Agobot writes: How many puddles will it take till you get the perfect pentagon shape? If you are looking for a naturally occuring pentagon shaped puddle, how many "regular" puddles is it going to take till you can find 1 that's pentagon shaped? The point is(as was conveyed in my earlier posts) that the odds for all the fundametal forces to be just right to support life as we know it... are well... 10^55?. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
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