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Author Topic:   A layman's questions about universes
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 1 of 128 (116676)
06-19-2004 1:25 PM


I am just wondering if there is a possibility of an infinite universe? What does science say? I really don't know much about this, and doubt I can grasp any technical input.
I am guessing most would agree that this is a finite universe? Big Bang and all. Don't laugh.
Q1. Could this universe ever become infinite? (Your laughing again.) I heard something about an implosion once? Or something about losing gravity??...
Q2. If other possible universes existed with a Big Bang beginning, does that mean there would be no infinite universes?
Q3. If there is possibly an infinite universe, would our universe reside inside that infinite universe?
Q4. If these continuous Big Bangs happened, where would they be happening? Would they be happening in another infinite universe, or would they be coming from "nothingness"? How could nothingness be "outside" an infinite universe?
Q5. Would nothingness be infinite? Could our universe reside "inside" another universe?
You may answer any question/ no questions.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Eta_Carinae, posted 06-19-2004 10:02 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 4 by jar, posted 06-19-2004 10:21 PM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 06-19-2004 11:26 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 14 by Rrhain, posted 06-21-2004 12:56 AM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 5 of 128 (116764)
06-19-2004 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
06-19-2004 10:21 PM


To be honest I have no conclusions whatsoever yet Jar. Just questions.
.By the way, even if the Universe kept expanding infinitely, it wouold still not be infinite.
Oh yeah, I never thought of that. Clever boy.
I am wondering though, if there are "other universes", then are we in an infinite one? Can't wrap my brain around it you see.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by jar, posted 06-19-2004 10:21 PM jar has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 30 of 128 (117220)
06-21-2004 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Rrhain
06-21-2004 12:56 AM


Regarding your last question, that also requires a definition of what you mean by nothingness.
I'm glad you said that. You answered it though. Here's what I meant;
If, indeed, brane-theory is correct, these Big Bangs are happening in a much larger structure than the universe.
I was referring to "nothingness" - as being the "place" where the Big Bang came from, a "larger structure" I suppose. So please DON"T give no mathematics. Yet how can a larger structure exist outside a boundless infinite universe? That puzzles me. Maybe my mind simply can't cope with that thought.
How does this relate to the universe? Well, it means we have to define what you mean by an "infinite" universe. Are you talking about the stuff inside, the boundary, or what may exist beyond the boundary? For example, if one is talking about the stuff inside, there is a reasonable claim that there is an "infinite" amount.
I suppose I meant the universe with no boundary. Infinite without one. You see, I asked too many questions int the OP. Yet you have shown that this is far from simple.
I thought that if another universe was infinite (no boundary), then our universe must exist inside it. Afterall, if it's literally forever, then can our universe exist outside of something which is boundary-less.
There can easily be an "outside" to an infinity depending upon what is meant by "infinity."
I suppose that you have shown that correct with the example of 0 -1. Infinite stuff inside, yet a boundary.
Now let's imagine a Big Bang happens inside the "larger structure", surely a Big Bang can only create an finite universe? As I remember, the Big Bang was an explosion of space/time? Therefore it grows. Jar said that a "growing" universe can never be "infinite" yet could grow infinitely. Is there a possibility of an infinite (bound) universe when a Big Bang occurs? Because if Jar is right, then surely it cannot ever achieve "infinite" stuff inside?
I suppose I could pedal infinitely on a bike, yet I will never achieve infinite pedalling. My pedal tally would grow and grow, and if I was immortal I could lterally pedal forever, yet I suppose my number of pedals would never achieve infinity.
Thanks for the reply anyway Rrhain, sorry for my late response.
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 06-21-2004 04:14 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Rrhain, posted 06-21-2004 12:56 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Rrhain, posted 06-22-2004 6:23 AM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 50 of 128 (117470)
06-22-2004 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Rrhain
06-22-2004 6:23 AM


No. It can easily create an infinite universe. But to explain it requires extremely hefty mathematics which not even I really want to go into.
Fair enough. I doubt I'd understand the mathematics anyway. Didn't Eta say that Big Bangs can't create infinite universes? Maybe I am wrong, but there seems to be some conflicting opinions. Am I then right in assuming that scientists could also disagree with one another concerning this issue?
Being a layman on this whole thing, I'm unlikely to get this stuff. I suppose this debate is speculation really. As surely there is only evidence of this universe. The "bigger structure" and multiple Big Bang's, I'm guessing there's no evidence for.
So basically I'm going to now just read this topic and see what happens with Buz and the others.
Thanks for the replies. I now understand that this is a complex thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Rrhain, posted 06-22-2004 6:23 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Rrhain, posted 06-22-2004 11:52 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 51 of 128 (117475)
06-22-2004 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Buzsaw
06-22-2004 12:58 AM


Re: This is why you should stick to playing bingo
I agree, it is nonsensical and meaningless to say "you idiot" rather than supplying a refutation.
As for your post to me, I am sorry I've been "over-posting" in numerous topics, but I do like your idea that the universe is "everything" in that, there is only evidence for one fine tuned universe which contains well, everything.
Regards, Mike.
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 06-22-2004 09:47 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Buzsaw, posted 06-22-2004 12:58 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by NosyNed, posted 06-22-2004 11:49 AM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 54 of 128 (117508)
06-22-2004 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by NosyNed
06-22-2004 11:49 AM


Re: What does all this mean?
It means words are the things that get in the way of what I want to say.
It's not Buz's idea. It was (and really still is ) the consensus scientific view, I think.
Lol. That's all I mean really, that basically we only have evidence for this universe. I know Buz is getting a lot of flack but really, all he's saying is that there is only one universe - this one, which is also scientifically sound.
So these multiple Big Bang's seem to be a bit speculative. Even if I am the one causing this induced speculation infiltration relation particle process of excess. Now let me lurk.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by NosyNed, posted 06-22-2004 11:49 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
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