T=0 and a Zero Energy Universe

Please, no replies to this message. --AdminEverybody thinks I am crazy and stupid so here I will try to remove all doubt.T = Time0 = A point as we know that time did not exist.Time is an element for man nothing else in the universe has to have time.Was there ever a time of any kind that there was an absence of anything?NO. If there was everything we see had to come into existence ex nihilo.Since nothing could come into existence ex nihilo there had to be something.This something has existed eternally. Or it had to be created ex nihilo.I view this eternal existence as God. You call it whatever you desire.The law of conservation of energy says there had to be an existence of energy/matter as it can not be created or destroyed.If it can not be created or destroyed that means it has always been in existence in some form.If it has always been there has to be somewhere for it to exist.I propose it existed where the Great I Am is.I Am means all that there is, ever was or will ever be. That equals to God.In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth. He made man, animals, birds, plants. God caused the heavens to stretch out and is still stretching them today. This event took place when there was no time as we know it because there was no sun and moon to mark time.There was only one eternal day until time was marked off for the benefit of modern man.There will come a time when time as we know it will cease as this universe explodes and melts with fervent heat.Then there will be a new heaven and earth and the balance of that eternal day will be played out.God Bless,Edited by Admin, : Add note at top.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

You are referring to the vacuum in a particle collider I assume.Are you implying there could have been a vacuum that the universe appeared in and began to expand?I would like your definition of genuine nothingness. Because I can only see nothingness existing someplace as it is not the absence of anything.Part of your last sentence seems to be missing making it hard to understand.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

You have a vacuume in time and space that is something.An absence of anything is exactly that. There is no time, space, matter, gravity, vacuume, and no place for any of those to be. It is truly hard to imagine an absence of anything.Concerning the vacuume: In an absence of anything there would be no particles to pop in an out of existence as there would be no place for them to pop from or into. I appreciate that.I know the universe had a beginning. I know the universe is expanding, I know all the planets, stars, galaxies, black holes, everything we can see and can not see came into existence. I know the universe is going to explode one day and the elements are going to melt with fervent heat. I am not too interested in how all the parts and pieces of the universe runs and accomplishes the things it does.But the Question of where did it come from is fasinating.
Because that brings up a more important question for me.Why am I here? That brings up the question,Where do we go from here?Whatever it is I am going to enjoy the ride and be happy. I have been told several times since coming to EvC that a Theory was a hypothesis that had been accepted by the community as a whole.The Big Bang Theory is such a theory. Even though there are many who dispute it's being correct.Why do we have a string theory, a bounce theory and all these other theories when they are nothing but hypothesis.In Message 26
Straggler I have a problem with space expanding maybe you can help.If at the moment expansion began every particles was moving apart at the speed of light (186,282 miles per second), How was anything able to form?You said the matter was not together long. Doesn't that depend on where it came from? If it just popped in and started expanding I would agree. But that would mean matter just appeared from an absence of anything and started expanding.You also said according to the inflation theory. I do not find where it is a theory yet. It is a hypothesis.You said these particles were moving faster than the speed of light. Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't that break the law of physics that nothing can move faster than the speed of light?Unless all this took place at the singularity where GR breaks down and prior to T=10^-43.But why would the laws of physics not be applicable?Guth's Reworked Inflation hypothesis I find Here.Requires an initial patch of gravitational repulsion about one-billionth the size of a proton.It only has to have a nonzero probability.If it exists it will expand as it is negative energy.The total energy is conserved as positive energy appears as the negative energy is appearing in the gravatational field.This could be the zero total energy universe.The inital inflation must have some way of stopping. The big problem with this hypothesis is the small patch has to have somewhere to be or to come from. But since prior to this small patch there is an absence of anything the possibility of it existing is ZERO.Also in msg 26: I have a nagging question in the back of my mind about the expansion of the pea sized universe. If space inside of all the particles in the little universe expanded and somehow it was able to produce enough mass to create the universe wouldn't all that mass still be inside of the universe?That is the reason in another thread I asked if I was standing on the surface of the universe and looked up what would I see. The surface would be the outside of the universe in my opinion. Somebody give me some help.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I made the statement it is hard for us to understand an absence of anything. I made that statement because we base everything on something. Therefore we don't want to believe in a total absence of anything because that would mean absolutely no thing, power, energy, mass existed, and that just could not be.I do not believe that there was ever a time that there was an absence of anything. If there had been you and I would not be here because there would still be an absence of anything.If the law of the conservation of energy is true that energy can not be created or destroyed then all the energy that is in the universe has always existed in some form.Or there had to be an endless supply of energy that never runs out. But what would you call that source?If this energy has always existed there had to be someplace that it existed in.If this energy existed in something then that something had to be a vast emptiness except for the energy that existed someplace in it.If part of this energy separated and began to expand and our universe is the result then our universe exists in this vast emptiness and can expand forever.If part of that energy that was left separated and created another universe there could be parallel universes.If more of that energy separated and started other universes there could be many universes.I have no problem with any of those. I don't know if you took time to read the article by Guth that I cited but he goes into great detail about the zero energy universe.
This is a modified version of his 1981 Inflation hypothesis.In 1981 version he did not have zero energy just matter being created during the inflation period. The revised one is to eliminate the problem of conservation of energy. I agree that there could be no on the surface of the universe.But I don't see how I could be standing in the surface of the universe. Correct me if I am wrong on this but I think if I had a powerful enough telescope I could look in any direction at anytime of the 24 hour time period as the earth rotates and I could see 37+ billion light years. That makes this surface pretty thick.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

The reason I was bring up our comprehension of an absence of anything is that everything we know about has a beginning in something. Hawking has his unbounded universe starting in imaginary time. The only way the singularity can exist is to have somewhere to exist. That is the reason I say we can not understand non existence. Science has an absence of time.I do not have an absence of time. Only an absence of time as you and I know it in 24 hr. periodsDo you think those galaxies on the great wall is concerned with time? I wish my bank account would work like that.That is the ultimate free lunch. You could have your cake sitting on the table and start eating it and never run out of cake. All energy that there ever was is or will be is the great I AM.Anything that is everything to me would have to be God. You can call it energy, force, or nature. Whatever it is it is awesome.If there is a God that could create this universe, and I believe there is. How could we limit what He could do because we don't understand it. I believe there could be millions of universes if not trillions. I have knowledge of only one but that does not rule out others. No, when they use the balloon they are talking about the ants crawling around on the outside surface of the balloon. I never did get it. I kept thinking if I was there and look up it would be blank.Now if the universe is like taking cake dough and putting a bunch of raisins in it with a lot of yeast in the dough. When you bake the cake all the raisins will get father apart as the cake cooks and the yeast makes the dough get much bigger. Now if you could expand that cake dough to the size of the universe those raisins would be scattered all through out that cake dough.If you were on anyone of those raisins you could only see 37+ billion light years in any direction therefore you would assume you were at the center of the universe.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I have been told many times that space and time exists only in the universe. Space is expanding inside the universe but the universe is not expanding into anything. Why would it change my mind? Buzzsaw argued for a full thread that God managed energy where there was no problem and got tore all to pieces. So if you want to get on board with an endless supply of energy that the total energy of the universe is zero welcome aboard. Science has an absence of time before T=0+. Now could you tell me what marked time from that point?I do not have an absence of time. Eternity is from everlasting to everlasting. Time is just a segment marked off in eternity for the benefit of man.Now correct me if I am wrong. Time as we know it is measured in seconds, minutes, hours, and days. These are determined by how long it takes our planet to rotate 360 degrees at the equator.Our years are determined by how long it takes the earth to circle our sun.What I was trying to raise when I mentioned the galaxies on the great wall was, Does the universe need time?If the earth exploded tomorrow would time cease?There would be no way to mark time nor anyone to mark time.
Time would continue on just not as we know time.Would the universe cease to exist?
Of course not. I doubt if it would even phase the Milky Way. I agree that before the BB there was no time as we know it.I disagree that time as WE know it was created as part of the BB, as part of spacetime.
Time is a product of man observing and sequencing the movement of our planet in relationship to our sun. (These are my words as I wrote them prior to going to Wikipedia.)Am I proposing something new? No not at all. Gottfried Leibniz and Immanuel Kant, according to Wikipedia holds that time is neither an event nor a thing, and thus is not itself measurable.We seem to place too much importance on US.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Buz was saying the same thing as Guth when he was talking about the zero total enery universe. Maybe not explaining it so you could understand it but I did.Buz said God supplied the energy and managed it so it did not break the lots. He did not give any specific details of how that was accomplished. But if an accident could do it, it should be easy for God. An assertion that time was created does not answer the question of what marked time. To mark time you have to measure it so how was it measured. Eternity is foever in the past and forever into the future.
Nothingness that something can appear in I do have a problem with because it is not an absence of anything.
An absence of anything is what I said is hard to understand because everything we know anything about came from somewhere or something and not from an absence of anything. I will agree Galaxies form, and Planets form. But they can't tell time and time does not matter to them. They exist in eternity.
Eternity is a measure of time.
One second is a measure of time.
1 minute is a measure of time.
1 hour is a measure of time.
24 hours is a measure of time.
years is a measure of time. A year equal to 365 1/4 days.Galaxies form in time. Is an assertion not a measure of time.
Planets form in time. Is an assertion not a measure of time. Time was not formed.
Time is not an event, thing, or place. It is an invention of man to measure duration. Just as inches, feet, yards and miles are to measure distance. How do you know they were evolving in time?
What determines the amount of time they were evolving?
What is that formula based on? It only means that they disagree as to what time is.If time is not a measure of duration please enlighten me. I agree. Don't give me a big head now.Be specific. The rotation of the earth at the equator takes almost 24 hours and this is considered one day as half has been light and half dark. I know the North Pole has six months of daylight and six months of darkness.Why is that not considered one day?What if it was such that it never got dark?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I will agree that the BB marks a time in the history of the universe that we can measure the duration from that event until today. We say that is 13.7 Billion years.Now how do we decide what a year is? Sure. All the energy in the universe. I AM.For the zero total energy universe you had to have two types the positive and the negative. I never said time ceased. I said time ceased as we know it. Why? Those tell you what is. Nothing to do with time. Then that is not time as we know it.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."